Does this make me a Bad Fan?

[liz_marcs]

Confession #1:

I'm approximately 1 gazillion times more excited about Mama Mia! opening today than I am about The Dark Knight, despite the fact that I can see The Dark Knight at no less than 2 IMAX theaters within easy driving distance.



Confession #2:

It appears that I will buy anything David Simon does because, as it turns out, he's my favorite author (for television) ever. I own the book Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets, all 7 seasons plus television movie of Homicide: Life on the Street, the book The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood, the HBO series The Corner, and the first 4 seasons of The Wire (with Season 5 on order for immediate shipping when it's available next month).

I am counting down to when Generation Kill will be available on DVD (I don't get HBO) so I can get my hands on it.

In short, you know how people will buy anything Joss Whedon does (even when it's total crap) and call him a genius for it (even though it's a case of the emperor walking around completely starkers)?

This is apparently how I treat productions involving David Simon, Ed Burns, and partners.

How can I put this...long before I let any of David Simon's stuff out of my hands, I will sell both my Angel and Buffy box sets.

The hell with that. I will burn my Angel and Buffy box sets before I give up any of David Simon's stuff.

(Seriously, those of you who kept looking for meaning in the "numbered shirts" of Buffy Season 6 that actually didn't have any meaning beyond, "We found a bunch of these for cheap in thrift shops?" Try The Wire, which actually has twice the meaning and twice the mythic elements of any Angel and Buffy episode without requiring you to fanwank. Best of all? The Wire actually has continuity that puts most book series to shame. No. I'm not kidding.)

Comments

[bastardsnow.livejournal.com]

If I may... I am your polar opposite on Confession 1 (though I didn't manage to secure IMAX tickets for this weekend, I'll be going next weekend) and basically with you on Confession 2, with the caveat that I'm new to David Simon's stuff, and haven't had time to build a collection yet.

But it's coming. Oh yes, it is coming.

The Wire is the single greatest television show I have ever seen. Bar none.

I feel that on Confession 2 I'm more forgiving of Whedon than you are, but he doesn't hold a candle to Ed Burns and David Simon. And though I love many of Joss's characters, not one of them comes close to the level of awesome that is Omar Little.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

You have got to listen to the commentaries on the DVDs. I positively love how they get into the backgrounds of not just the characters (i.e., who is based on whom), but the actors. (I swear Ed Burns was giving people he busted for drugs and murder acting jobs on The Wire as they were coming out of prison.)

Seriously, though. The biggest head-trip I ever had was, after being a H;LotS fan for years, reading the book it was based on for the first time. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I'd get deja vu because they did try to yank at least several murders that were mentioned in the book into the television show per season.

I just got "The Corner" DVD and book, so I can't speak to them yet. :-) Gimme a week or two.

[bastardsnow.livejournal.com]

I watched the first Ep or 2 of The Corner, and wasn't enthralled, mostly, I think, because of the style of the thing.

And I have the first disc of H: LotS showing up from Netflix tomorrow, so... yay!

I will definitely check out the commentaries, too.

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

Homicide was the best show on television, ever. I still miss it. There will never ever be another character like Frank Pembleton. I used to record episodes and take them to school and show them to my high school students. I got so many lesson plans out of that show. I showed my students Hush on Halloween, but they didn't react to it the way they often would to Homicide episodes.

You dare diss Joss? Hah ha. His followers are like blind cultists. I'm not saying I don't love a lot of what he's done, but it's not the greatest stuff in the world. It's good quality, fine quality, but it's not the all the answers to everything you wanted or needed in the universe.

I never got into or understood all the fanwanking on BTVS and ATS. I just watched and enjoyed. I'm not even amused by all the fanwanking that continues. :shrugs:

I still watch the documentary about the making of that Homicide episode, "Subway" starring Vincent D'Onofrio. I still show that to my students because it shows all the work behind the scenes getting one episode made.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

bastardsnow convinced me to try The Wire, which is better than H:Lots because they can actually get away with more on HBO than they could on NBC (where producers and writers were always battling with the network).

That said, I don't think you'll ever be able to show The Wire in a classroom, unless your class is college-level. :-)

Don't get me wrong, I like Buffy and Angel just fine (I own both box sets after all and write fanfic for Buffy), but whenever the Whedonnites start with the loud worship of Joss (and it's at annoying levels with this Dr. Horrible thing-y), I really have to wonder.

That said, I don't think the sun shines out David Simon's ass, either. I just happen to think he's one of the best television writers working in the U.S. right at this moment, mostly because I love the way he structures his shows (each season really is a stand-alone novel) and I love his strong sense of continuity.

And speaking of H:LotS....I need to rent Oz from Netflix so I can decide if I want to give Fontana some love in the future.

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I'd be able to take "The Wire" because I'm kind of wimpy and sensitive. Homicide used to take a lot out of me. I'm fairly certain I couldn't watch Oz. I had to stop watching "The Shield" because it just hurt my psyche. I'm weird.

I like Joss too, and I loved Buffy and Angel, but I don't *WORSHIP* Joss the way a lot of people do. I think Dr. Horrible is cute, but it's kind of sad that something of that quality is getting so much attention when there are probably young filmmakers out there putting out real quality stuff which will never be seen.

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

I must join you in the Simon-squeee. I haven't managed to get sucked in by Buffy, Firefly or pretty much anything by Joss Whedon, but I adore Simon. And that's my 11 cents.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Buffy and Angel are fun escapism and quality entertainment for the most part, but neither show is as original nor as mythologically deep as Whedon's cultists would have us believe.

Firefly bored the tits off me because I could always guess the end of the episode roughly 10 minutes after it started.

As for the Buffy comics *rolls eyes* let's just say they're a serious case of "meh" (no, I've never bought any, but I've at least looked at every issue and I haven't been at all impressed), so the wet-panty reaction that greets every issue mystifies me.

[0x.livejournal.com]

I tried watching two episodes of The Wire and I didn't get the magic. Why is it so popular?

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

It simply may not be your cuppa. I have a friend who has approximately zero desire to see The Wire because she doesn't like true crime or shows that are so completely morally ambiguous (and The Wire is utterly without a a moral compass in many ways). That's a completely all right, by the way. The show is not to the taste of everyone.

However, the reason why the show is so wildly popular is because each season "reads" (or watches) as it it's a self-contained true crime novel. The entire show is produced and filmed in Baltimore by Baltimorians. Many of the second- and third-tier cast are either former cops or former drug dealers with a felony record for murder (and don't be so sure that those felons actually play felons...because they don't).

In addition, all of the situations shown in the series are based on real-life situations that the writers (which are either former reporters, former cops, or former teachers that have worked in Baltimore) have had to tangle with.

The essential reality behind the fiction is what people are responding to.

[rhythmaning.livejournal.com]

I was given series one of "The Wire" as a birthday present recently. I haven't watched any og it - it is on an obscure (=expensive) satellite channel over here.

But suddenly I keep reading about it - there are things in the papers about how it is the best tv series ever. For real.

I do still harbour a love of "Buffy", though. And Buffy, of course...

Oh, and I don't think that preferring "Mama Mia!" over Batman makes you a bad fan. Just a different fan to the one you thought you were, perhaps!

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

It really is the best TV series ever...for real. :-)

And, to be honest, The Wire is shown on HBO even in the U.S., which is a premium channel that requires people to pay extra to watch it if you want to see it first run. Otherwise, you have to rent or buy the DVDs.

The way to think of the The Wire is that it's a series of 5 true crime novels (there are 5 seasons, one season = one novel) that explore the different facets of the Baltimore, MD, drug and criminal culture.

In many ways, the storylines (especially the storyline of the Barksdale Crime Organization which takes 3 years to pay off) are built on the same structure as classical Greek tragedies.

Also — and this is really key — the series is written and produced exclusively by people who live, work, and (no shit) committed the crimes in Baltimore (quite a lot of the cast have felony records for drugs and murder and were arrested by one of the producers, Ed Burns, back when he was a homicide detective).

I got sucked into The Wire by the end of the first episode that kicked off Season 1. I ended up buying the entire series sight-unseen as a result.

Seriously. Give it a try if you've got the discs.

[kaura-nighthawk.livejournal.com]

Didn't Whedon admit he basically sprinkled Buffy and Angel with random mysterious elements solely for the purpose of falling back on it when/if he wants a convenient plot twist at a latter date?

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

That one I never heard.

All I ever heard was that Whedon admitted he loved the big "GOTCHYA" moments and that he wasn't too fussed about whether said "GOTCHYA" wasn't consistent with previously stated canon.

I mean, sure, it's Whedon's show, and he has a right to blow his own canon out of the water. But there's a reason why Buffy S6 and S7 descended into an exercise in fanwanking...in large part because that was about the point that the show began collapsing under its own WtF moments. (S7 is a clear-cut, on-screen demonstration of a show falling to shit on screen.)

[invisionary.livejournal.com]

The hell with that. I will burn my Angel and Buffy box sets before I give up any of David Simon's stuff.

Yep. I'd do the same. Don't get me wrong, I love Buffy and Angel (well, mostly), but The Wire is on a completely different level. I really do think it's the best TV show ever made.

I've seen the first episode of Generation Kill and so far, it's quite good as well.

How far into The Wire are you now?

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

*shakes like a junkie*

I'm waiting for Season 5 to be shipped to me via Amazon when it comes out August 18.

I pretty much burned through the first four seasons, and then went back and watched all the commentary and special features.

Order of my love (thus far):
1) Season One (D'Angelo explaining chess to Wallace and Bodie will haunt me for a long time)

2) Season Four (I want to draw hearts all around all four of the kids, Bodie's soldier's death)

3) Season Three (Stringer Bell's death actually made me weep...and I was rooting for Omar!)

4) Season Two (While still awesome, I don't think it held together as well as the other seasons.)


I suspect that I'll probably love Season 5 more than most people, in large part because of the Baltimore Sun focus and the slow decline of the American newspaper. That's a storyline that hits home because it started waaaaaay back when I was working for newspapers as a reporter. I pretty much knew that my choices were either face getting laid off once every two to three years, or switch careers. I suspect that's going to *ping* for me in a way that it didn't for most people.

Plus, any time I get to watch Clark Johnson on my TV screen is always a good time. :-)

[booster17.livejournal.com]

The Wire Season Two sits oddly with me - I find myself almost considering the docks storyline and the Barksdale gang storyline as being two totally different shows. Much as I really love both story arcs, somehow they don't work that well together and I'm unsure why.

But Season One is magnificent once you get used to the pace. I found myself watching episode after episode without quite understanding why I kept coming back until the infamous 'fuck' scene with Bunk and McNulty. Hook, line and sinker. To the extent that I've been basically squeeing all week waiting for tonight's episode of The Culture Show over here featuring David Simon talking about The Wire.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

The fuck scene...that is such a thing of beauty.

I think somewhere in commentary for Season 3 you find out the genesis of Bunk's and McNulty's "fuck" dialog. It was based on a throw-away one-linger from a homicide cop that Simon had followed while he was researching Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets.

Apparently, the cop was joking about the fact that at some point all dialog at a crime scene was going to consist of just that one word of "fuck," just using different intonations to get across what the fuck actually means.

Years later, he remembered it, and decided to find out if it could be done.

The thing that really blows my mind about the main cast of the Wire during the first four seasons? At least three of them were from the UK (Dominic West — McNulty; Idris Elba — Stringer Bell; Aidan Gillen — Tommy Carcetti) and one has lived in London for 30 years (Clarke Peters — Lester Freamon).

Also, the guy who was the basis for Munch in Homicide(Jay Landsmen is his real name) had a speaking part in The Wire during Seasons 3 and 4 (He played the Sgt. in the Western District who'd give the shift briefings. Old guy. Glasses. Mustache. Really, really broad Baltimore accent.)

[taerowyn.livejournal.com]

I learn amazing amounts of Buffy craziness reading your posts/comments. And I always message something about being happy I'm in the shallow end of the fandom pool as there are scary things out there in the deep end.

I'm a big lurker in the wank...happily watching the show and not even attempting to participate.

It's funny that my non-fan friends think I'm over the top. I made a single post saying people should check out Dr. Horrible on the off chance they don't know about it. The entry was on Twitter no less...mainly cause I figured LJ was covered, but my circle on twitter isn't all that fan-connected and I think it's a fun show to check out. Then people start commenting on their own streams re: the Cult of Whedon, not understanding the fascination yadda, yadda, yadda. I am so the tip of the tip of the tip of that iceberg. I like his stuff...not all his stuff, just the stuff I do happen to like. Because I tend to like his stuff, when new stuff comes out by him, I check it out (much as I do with other writers I like...Aaron Sorkin, etc.), but in no way do I assume perfection cause his name is attached. I don't think they really understand the scariness that is the Cult of Whedon if they think I'm representative of it.

Speaking of S6/S7...I own all the seasons...I have yet to watch those seasons since I got them. I can get myself through S5 and then all motivation to watch withers away. I think there are actually some episodes in those seasons that I've never seen. I just haven't found the motivation to go through them all.

As for Dr. Horrible, I'm actually more interested in the overall business model parts of this whole thing i.e. the making entertainment outside the studio system, "will this work?" of it all (sure, I'm entertained by it, but I'm more interested to see what happens next on the business level than the plot level).

To your original point...I've had The Wire recommended to me by at least one person in practically every circle of friends I have. Methinks I should finally get off my ass and Netflix the thing.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Yes. You must Netflix it. It's like crack, but the good kind of crack where you lose sleep while watching it as opposed to the bad kind of crack that will kill you if you're not careful.

In fact, while I'm sitting here talking about it, I have this desperate need to go back an re-watch season 1. Like right now.

As for online Buffy fandom, you're probably better off being a lurker to be honest. While I've met some great people through Buffy fandom, there were days it made me want to tear my hear out

The Cult of Whedon (which I wouldn't say you're part of — the Cult of Whedon is "Joss can do no wrong") which grew out of Buffy/Angel fandom really is something complete different. They actually scare me a little bit because you can't tell them anything and suggesting that someone may have done something first and better (as in the case of Dr. Steel vs. Dr Horrible) is likely to get you a very, very bad reaction.

[agilesreader.livejournal.com]

I loved Homicide Life on the streets. But I just can not get into the Wire. I should probably give it another shot.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I fully admit that "The Wire" is not for everyone. Some people are thrown off by either the swearing (and there's a lot), the sex (there is a lot), and the violence (very much a lot). Other's can't wrap their heads around the Baltimore accents and patois of the drug trade.

I'm not saying that it's an acquired taste, but it actually doesn't follow that loving H:Lots will automatically transfer to loving "The Wire." It's more likely, but it all depends on what your tolerance level is for what is essentially a televised true crime-style novel that was cablecast on a channel where there's no such thing as network standards and practices.

[sam-arkand.livejournal.com]

I keep meaning to do the "rent-a-DVD-season" thing. There's a bunch of shows I want to check out, Wire and Dexter among them. Maybe when winter finally hits up here in Canada...

It's odd. While I can get irritatingly fanboi about shows, I'm not much of a *fan*. Getting involved in deep dark discussions and fanshipping wars just seems like a waste of time to me. I don't even get involved in Terry Pratchett fandom, a man for whom I would call another out onto the fields of honour with pistols at ten if said person didn't acknowledge Pterry's awesomeness.

As for Mama Mia...oy. I once was inveigled by my mother--right after a great aunt's funeral, may I add--into seeing that musical because she "didn't want to waste the ticket". Fine, it's ABBA. How bad can it be? Well, five minutes into the production I was frantically looking for the ejection seat handle. My crazed raving at intermission is still recalled with irritated amusement by my aunt. Every time I hear the movie commercial on the radio, I get the Swedish soft-rock equivalent of Nam flashbacks.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I watched Dexter season one and, while it's interesting, after seeing the whole thing I've decided that I'm a whole lot less enamored of it than most people. I liked the first couple of episodes, but after awhile...I got bored with it.

In short, I like it, but I don't get why people are wild about it.

As for the Wire...definitely top quality stuff and I love it, although it's far more violent that Dexter is and the characters far more morally ambiguous.

I think it's the difference between a cartoon where violence is a component (Dexter) and one where violence is part of the core issue being addressed (The Wire).

[drmercurious.livejournal.com]

IMHO, Joss Wheedon is an excellent writer...as long as there is someone standing over his shoulder with a nail-studded Editor's Stick. Once that goes away, his stuff ranges from mildly entertaining to 'pitchfork-wielding mob' bad.

Anyone who's read 'The Astonishing X-Men' under his rule and seen what he did to Kitty understands what I mean by 'pitchfork-wielding mob'.

As for comparing his writing to Homicide, that's sort of like comparing 'Shrek 3' to 'WALL-E'. (Incidentally, for those who think WALL-E is being hypocritical, consider; the only merchandising that has come out for WALL-E that I have been able to find is a computer game. No McD or BK toys, no T-Shirts, no action figures, no NOTHING)