OH JOHN RINGO NO!

[liz_marcs]

With all the business about this kind of skeevy crap (not to mention the fact there's a massive case of failboat here), is it wrong that I'm perversely pleased that OH JOHN RINGO NO has become a catchphrase (hradzka must be proud!)?

No, seriously. It's not everyday one is present at the birth of an Internet meme and has the commenting record to prove it.

What? Don't look at me like that.

Anyway, Unfunny Business on Journalfen is going a bit of a round-up on the business.

As for me, I only have one question:

Why is it that whenever someone (usually male) decides that it's time to get "sex positive," it's invariably the women who need to "get over their issues" so they can participate? Also, why is it that they're the ones who usually end up at the receiving end of whatever insane little "sex positive" experiment is being done?

Strange how that works, hunh?

Look, if a woman says the idea of such a "sex positive" experiment (read: giving men a free pass on treating female-type people like meat) is skeevy, it does not mean she's "got sexual issues," or "lacks a sense of humor," or is "anti-feminism."

What it means is that she reserves the right to do one or all of the following if you pull that shit on her:

1) Mace your ass

2) Rip your nuts off

3) Call the cops and press sexual assault charges

It also means that she (and I imagine quite a lot of men) don't like it when complete strangers grope any part of their anatomy, erogenous zone or not.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with some people that they don't get that?

That said, seeing OH JOHN RINGO NO plastered all over this tempest has had me giggling like a loon all day (much love to the_red_shoes for using it first in reference to this).

Comments

[zoethe.livejournal.com]

And how do you know that those people who innocently expressed curiosity weren't horribly uncomfortable with the idea that something like this was publicly taking place at the con that they also paid good money to attend?

Um, because they came up to us with amused and curious smiles?

You absolutely have the right to express your sexuality in any way you see fit, I don't think anyone is arguing against that

I wouldn't be out here defending it if that were the case. Generally, I've been speaking up where people have been stating that the women who were involved were victims, or broken, or where the project is being mischaracterized and coercive.

People without buttons weren't supposed to be asked, but that didn't mean they didn't see what was going on and that you didn't make them feel uncomfortable.

We're not going to do it again. You've all convinced us that challenging conventions is wrong. I'll just go put on my pearls and vacuum now.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

Um, because they came up to us with amused and curious smiles?

And what happened after you explained and they walked away? How did hearing the details of your experiment effect them? You DON'T KNOW. You don't know how many rape and abuse survivors you might have offended or triggered with your happy-go-gropey attitude. It's Sexual Assault Awareness Month, go read some statistics.

I am NOT saying that your 'project' was a sexual assault, but I'm trying to make you understand why people are having such a strong, negative reaction to the way your husband presented it.

We're not going to do it again. You've all convinced us that challenging conventions is wrong. I'll just go put on my pearls and vacuum now.

Wow, way to be passive-aggressive and read into something that no one has said. Women's rights do not involve having random strangers grope their tits in public.

What you did was not 'challenging conventions'. It was creating a potentially hostile environment in an unexpected and public place. And quite possibly breaking public decency laws.

I have attended parties where all the attendees were good friends and comfortable with each other and there has been random groping, kissing, snuggling, nudity, etc. It is liberating to touch and be touched in a comfortable zone. A public convention hall is not that comfort zone.

[zoethe.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I'm exhausted from this discussion and my last remark was uncalled for. But I can't continue any of this without tears, so I'm just withdrawing from further debate.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

I'm sincerely sorry that this has had a negative impact on you.

I am in no way objecting to your opinion that enjoying your body is a bad thing; my primary objection is the fact that this all took place in a such a public venue and from what I'm reading, that is the main objection of the vast majority of the people who are arguing with you right now.

Maybe thinking about it in those terms will help you gain a different perspective.

[zoethe.livejournal.com]

We've said we won't do it again. we've been silenced. I do feel bad for the many people who expressed that they would love to be involved in something like this, because silence means that the people against it will be convinced that no other opinion exists, but I can't keep this up.

[tinylegacies.livejournal.com]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with something similar continuing in an appropriate venue.

Take to a private hotel room or ask for a dedicated con suite or something. That way it is truly an "opt-in" experience; the people who enter that designated space are aware of what they are getting themselves into.