You did not just go there...

[liz_marcs]

I should just not read metafandom on LJ and meta_roundup on IJ some days.

Because when I see posts like this where fanfiction is compared to "gay marriage," I want to break things. (The correct term is equality marriage, BTW. Edit: I've been told that "gay marriage" and "same-sex marriage" are as acceptable as "equality marriage." Just throwing that out there so it doesn't detract from my point.)

[NOTE: DO NOT go over and flame the OP or cause her problems. I'm providing the link so you can read the post and for no other reason.]

I first heard/seen it on LJ a few days ago. Then I saw it linked to on JF. It's now been linked to meta_roundup on IJ.

I've seen this same comparison three times in something like three days.

Each time I read it, I get a bit angrier.

Look, I understand that the Organization for Transformative Works (hereafter referred to as the OTW) is a big deal to some people. I've read the various arguments in support of it, and I'm still not horribly impressed. I see a lot of biiiiiiig words arguing why I should think the OTW (whatever it's supposed to be) is the greatest thing evah, but what I don't see is a lot of operational details that a wonk like me sees as remotely feasible.

Personally, when it comes to the OTW, I say the jury is waaaaay out on that one. Because all those words I'm reading really don't tell me a damn thing of what it's actually supposed to be and what it's supposed to accomplish. I feel a bit like someone who's listening to 5 blind men describe an elephant without knowing that they're describing an elephant. No one seems to actually agree on what "it" is supposed to be.

But far be it from me to harsh anyone's Big Idea That Will Change the World. Knock yourself out, sez I. Who knows? Maybe I'm too naturally suspicious of the Big Idea That Will Change the World. Maybe the supporters of OTW are right. Maybe it will actually turn out to be something pretty special. I could be wrong, and I'm willing to be wrong.

However, based on what I'm reading/seeing so far...let's just say I have my doubts about OTW and leave it at that.

That said, posts like "fanfiction is like gay marriage" is not going to win me over.

In fact, it really pisses me the hell off.

As someone who lives in the only state in the U.S. that actually recognizes equality marriage as a matter of law and who lived the 4 bruising years between 2003 and 2007 where the fight raged non-stop over any and all attempts to amend our state constitution to make our gay and lesbian friends, family members, and neighbors into second class citizens to the point where it overrode all other state issues I'm pretty fucking sure that fanfiction is not like "gay marriage" at all.

Let me explain something:

• No one has ever been beaten into the hospital or the morgue because they wrote fanfiction
  
  
• No one has ever found themselves put out on the street because their fanfic writing partner died and their writing partner's family didn't want that dirty little co-writer around
  
  
• No one has ever been prevented from attending their fanfic writing partner's funeral by members of their fanfic writing partner's family who were fanficphobic
  
  
• No one has ever been prevented from seeing their fanfic writing partner in the hospital because they wrote fanfic
  
  
• No one has ever been treated as a second class citizen by society at large because they wrote fanfic
  
  
• No one is arguing about making amending the U.S. Constitution to make fanfic illegal, thereby relegating you to permanent second-class citizenship because of your hobby (as opposed to, y'know, your very existence)
  
  
• No one has ever had their civil rights violated because they wrote fanfic
  

I'm sure that list could be a lot longer, but that's just for a start on how writing fanfic is not at all like "gay marriage."

Listen, I'm not saying that fanfic writers haven't found themselves in shit RL situations like the ones I've listed above. I'm also not arguing that all fanfic writers are gay, lesbian, or bi any more than I'd argue the reverse.

However, 99% of the time verging on 100% of the time, when RL (as in: not on the Internet) sexism or racism or sexuality bias rears its ugly head and slaps an individual across the face, it's not because they write fanfiction. They may happen to write fanfiction, but it's not because they write fanfiction, damn it!

You see the difference, right? Because I see a pretty big difference between the two.

Listen, I understand that the very idea of the OTW inspires fanatical devotion among some in fandom to the point where they can be pretty annoying about it, but posts like this are not helping your cause.

And this isn't the first time I've seen/read posts in favor of the OTW that lacked any sort of perspective at all. I mean, for the record, writing fanfiction is not at all like being in an interracial marriage. And questioning the purpose of the OTW is not at all like being homophobic or racist (examples of arguments I've actually read).

Posts like this piss people off. It sure as hell pisses me off. And when you piss people off, you turn them off. Maybe permanently.

Hyperbole is no one's friend. Please keep that in mind for the future. Thanx.

Comments

[lynnenne]

I agree with your post. No one has ever been beaten to death for writing fanfic. Fanfic can never be compared to an issue as fundamental as equality marriage. My civil rights have never been violated by writing fanfic. But I have some concerns that perhaps they could be.

I work in the PR profession. It's my job to help the companies I work for present a positive image to the public. As such, I feel I have to be very careful in separating my online persona from my work life. I'm in Canada, but the majority of companies I represent are headquartered in the U.S. Most of them would not be happy to discover that one of their representatives is writing slash online. They would argue that "it's not the kind of image we want to portray," and would probably ask to have me removed from their accounts. I fear that I could even be fired for my online activities.

So, yeah, I certainly don't feel oppressed by society at large, and in no way would I consider my situation equivalent to the strugle for equal rights. But there are fears there. Given the corporate climate in America these days, and the opposition we've already encountered from LJ, I feel those fears are justified.

I don't know whether OTW will help the situation or not. I fear it may even make it worse. Like you, I'm skeptical. But I'm willing to be convinced.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

To be fair, I'm not exactly open that I write fanfic either, and I write gen for heaven's sake.

I work in the publishing field where copyright is A VERY BIG DEAL, so if it came out that I cheerfully violate copyrights on a regular basis even though the copyright holder is cool with it, there's a shot the consequences for me wouldn't be pleasant.

But as I pointed out above: it's a commercial concern and not a civil right concern. A lot of the problem is that fanfic and other fan art falls into a somewhat grey area where it only matters if the copyright holder asserts their ownership against it. I know other countries handle the issue differently (Japan, for start). Also, acceptance of fan art is currently in flux, where you're seeing it more in the mainstream, but full acceptance isn't there yet.

Do I think at some point there'll be wider acceptance of it as more and more people find out what it is? Probably. Do I think OTW is the way to go? Like you, I'm not convinced and also fear that it may make things worse. I'd rather it diffuse and go slow, because I'm afraid that pushing for too much too fast would land us into an RIAA scenario, and that's one place we don't want to go.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

I'd really like to see your thoughts on my other comment, because I do think there's some bias in how the copyright concerns are being addressed - i.e. why fan fiction writers feel they are at a disadvantage due to the language directed at them in the discussion - but this is NOT the same as being able to invoke Stonewall or the Defense of Marriage Act in the discussion. The DRMC and the DMA are two very different areas. I think it might also be confusing the personal (hurt feelings over how people laugh at fan fiction) with the political (a capitalist, market-driven aggressiveness towards a set of harmless enthusiast). It makes me wish Karl Marx was one of the Supernatural brothers.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Heee! Responded above.

I agree that copyright law needs to catch up with reality, but at the same time I'm not convinced that altering copyright law to the point that it's all "power to the people" all the time works either.

I also agree that the current draconian attitude in the U.S. regarding copyright law certainly has the potential to encourage even more draconian laws that could potentially be intrusive into people's lives. (Okay, okay, the RIAA is way ahead of us here...) I'm not convinced that we're there quite yet, and I'm not convinced the OTW will head it off.

That said: still doesn't take away from the fact that the OP made a very, very bad argument where she knew it would be an exaggeration.

Another rhetorical issue

[fengi.livejournal.com]

This also feeds into another issue I've had with OTW discussion.

As far as I know, non-commercial self-amusement is protected under current fair use.

So outsiders might read fan-fiction activism as trying to legalize for profit, unauthorized fan-fiction of living authors. A simple direct position on commercial use would help the cause, and OTW "What We Believe" page doesn't have it.

When I mention this, the responses tend to the vague and tangental combining 2 Live Crew's version of Pretty Woman, The Wind Done Gone, Homer's The Odessey and a case where a woman's fan and a perhaps apocryphal instance where fandom played a role in a custody case. Which seems like avoiding the point and using examples which fail to support it anyway, and makes it seem like they have an agenda opposed to my concept of authorial rights.

[lynnenne]

it's a commercial concern and not a civil right concern.

That's true when the issue is copyright violation. But for me, the issue is that I write fic about two guys getting it on. The fact that it's fanfic is irrelevent. If I wrote original fic, my employers would probably still tell me to stop doing it, because their (mostly American, mostly corporate) clients don't like the idea of Teh Gay touching them in any way. So I do see it as a civil rights issue - in particular, an issue regarding freedom of speech.

If I'm fired for what I post online, I could probably make a case for wrongful dismissal (especially in Canada, where privacy legislation and human rights laws have more teeth). But more troubling is the idea that a new, potential employer would refuse to hire me because of my hobby. In a case like that, I would probably never know. It's quite commone nowadays for employers to weed out potential job candidates because of information they find on MySpace or Facebook. How long before employers start trolling LiveJournal for the same information? They're probably doing it already. Which is why I'm careful not to use my full name, post my e-mail address or tell anyone where I work. I just hope that's enough to protect me.

That's not to say, of course, that my worries can be compared to the struggles of those who are fighting for same-sex marriage. I do recognize that they are not the same.

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

The OP responsible for the link in question, however, is trying to promote the view that writing fanfic in general is somehow comparable to being gay. What you are alluding to is not part of an anti-fanfic societal attitude but a subset of the anti-gay societal attitude. As such, you are arguing a separate issue from the one that we're all commenting upon.

[lynnenne]

Oh, OK. That's what I get for not reading the original post. *g*

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

Hehe! Gotcha! ;)

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Ahhhh, thank you. I've been...arguing. Heeee!

But, yes. It's the mixing of anti-fanfic attitudes with anti-gay attitudes, which are two completely different questions.