liz_marcs | The Problem With Fish...

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The Problem With Fish...

It's been a heart-breaking week on ElJay, hasn't it?

Or maybe I mean a heart-breaking month.

Screw it. It's been a heart-breaking few months.

I should be pissed, but I honestly think my outrage button is broken by this point.

So, now I'm just sad about the whole mess.

And even though I know that not all of the racist-bigoted-ignorant folks out there subjecting ethnic and religious minorities to some pretty hateful crap are U.S. citizens, most of them are.

And every time I read one more racist-bigoted-ignorant comment that seems to say in a nutshell "if you're offended, it's all your fault" or "everyone knows this cliché is true" or bypassing all of that to (anonymously of course) type out a racial or ethnic slur and leave it like a pile of shit on a pillow in someone's personal ElJay, I can't help but think of a cliché in response:

"Fish rots from the head down."

It's one of those sayings that every language on earth has, because it's a universal truth.

And when you've got the very people at the top of society (whether you think they deserve to be there or not) demonizing entire nations, nationalities, religions, political parties, and even political beliefs and few with any power or media pulpit calls them on it, all the rats are gonna come out to play.

And the rats aren't shy about what they want: for white, Christian men to be in total control. And not just any ol' white, Christian man either. They want a white, Christian man in charge who'll adhere only to the most odious version of that white, Christian man.

Forget it if you're a white, Christian man who thinks the above is just bullshit. You're the wrong white, Christian man and you should be branded a traitor along with teh ebil liberuls and punished accordingly.

Mexicans, of course, should be shot on sight. Never mind if they're citizens. Chances are, one of their ancestors illegally swam the Rio Grande, so that means they're not "real Americans."

Adherents to Islam should be be de facto treated as terrorists or wanna-be terrorists. And we all know what that means, don't we. Hello Guantanamo! If you're lucky. There's always extraordinary rendition if you're not. Innocence, by the way, does not seem to come into play here.

Blacks should be glad they were allowed to stay in the U.S. at all, rather than shipped en masse back to Africa after the Civil War, so they should keep their heads down and understand that leaving nooses around is just a light-hearted joke.

If you're Jewish, you get off light by comparison. You just need to be perfected, and everything will be cool.

Hell, there are some people out there that really believe that if you're not Christian, you shouldn't be a U.S. citizen.

Welcome to eliminationism, U.S.-style, a theory once laughed at, but is now being taken a whole lot more seriously by a people across a broad spectrum, especially now that the Dolchstoßlegende mythology is being trotted out on U.S. right-wing talk radio.

When you've got a significant number of religious and political leaders, not to mention those outrageous media darlings, talking like this maybe we shouldn't be shocked when the rats come out to play and start slinging around the shit. It's like they've been given permission to let loose the id and get it all over the rest of us.

It's all part of the same poisonous atmosphere, it's all part of the same continuum of thought. And if you go against it that continuum of thought, if you say, "Hey, waitaminute here..." you are the one with the problem, you are the one being oversensitive, you are the one who's wrapped their tin-hat too tightly.

Never mind if you're aware of history and just how flipping easy it is to create a faceless block of scapegoats to distract people from the cracks in the system. Never mind that you know the history behind every nasty insinuation and how it had been used against other faceless blocks of scapegoats before.

And history is always a hell of a lot closer than you think, especially if it's your history.

My mother knew people who survived Auschwitz. She's seen the tattooed numbers with her own eyes. And she knew these people as an adult, so we're talking within the last 40 years. Yes, the Holocaust is that close, so please excuse people for just being a tad jumpy when things get ugly.

I have a black friend who is trying to pull together her family genealogy. "Trying" is the operative word here. She got to 30 years before Civil War in a Mid-Atlantic State before the trail goes stone, dead cold. She'll be the first to tell you that hitting the 1830s and finding out that she had free-black ancestors in the U.S. that early is a major-league victory. But now she's left trying to run down rumors that somewhere there are copies of her family's slave papers on one of the family compounds. She's not having luck. Some family members swear they exist. Some family members refuse to talk about it. And so, whenever she tries to shake those documents loose, the elephant in the room wanders over and sits on her head. "Slavery." History come to life, indeed.

That's just two examples off the top of my head. One person's "a long time ago" is really fucking relevant to someone who's alive today, a whole hell of a lot more relevant that you can hope understand.

And while I'm not going to lay claim to someone else's personal problems when racism and religious bigotry smacks them in the most ugly way possible, any one who's evolved beyond the tribal monkey-brain should have figured out by now that this crap is just evil.

Yeah, I said it. Evil. Because that's exactly what it is. And maybe I can say it without being called "oversensitive" because I'm not one of the people this crap is being aimed at.

Here's what I do know, though, and history is completely on my side in this.

It's crap like this that gives people permission to think that another human being is worse than an animal based on some arbitrary standard of ethnicity, skin color, religious (or lack thereof) belief, or political stance.

When they start thinking it, they start acting on it.

The real hell of it is this: They always have. They always are. They always will.

And if in some point in time when it happens again, how sure are you that you won't be the one treated worse than an animal?

Better yet, what will you do when the rain fire right being thrown around right this very second starts including you?

So it seems to me that it's pretty much in everyone's self interest to put a stop to this kind of evil. Failure to do so seems to me to be the equivalent of begging history to turn around and bite you in the ass.

Funny thing about history. It tends to do just that, sooner or later.

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Those who have not learned the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

I can't help but think of Germany in the 1920s :(

And maybe I can say it without being called "oversensitive" because I'm not one of the people this crap is being aimed at.

YOu will, however, be accused of having "White Liberal Guilt" - because it is wrong to be liberal, wrong to feel guilt, and you are thus a traitor to your class...

I always feel somewhat darkly amused at Bill O'Reilly's outraged bigotry, especially considering the way Irish immigrants used to be treated. There's no way he could be ignorant of that fact. But as long as he's in the country club now, I guess that's all he cares about.

Yes, yes he CAN be that ignorant.

And even though I know that not all of the racist-bigoted-ignorant folks out there subjecting ethnic and religious minorities to some pretty hateful crap aren't U.S. citizens, most of them are.
I don't often nitpick grammar and typoes, but I think this is a pretty important sentencein a very good post.

"Fish rots from the head down."

So true. I've seen organizations and workgroups change radically, for the better and for the worse, with new leadership. Even a lazy leader has an effect and sets the tone for the whole.

I've seen a group where harassment was a problem change in six months to a place where someone would snap, "that's not appropriate," when a coworker made a mean joke about a woman's hajib. Not because of lecturing, but because of example. The atmosphere changed from disorganized and paranoid, full of people worried about their future and seeking other positions, to a stable and productive group, because when everyone is treated with respect, you don't have to keep looking over your own shoulder. Attrition: one bully, unmourned.

Unfortunately, I've seen the reverse process more often. You're absolutely right that is what is happening on a national level. Your post is a fitting response to "Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week," an event that was epitomized in my mind less by Horowitz' blathering than Rick Santorum's statement, which manages to insult true Christians as it betrays an incredible ignorance of Islam:

“Islam, unlike Christianity, is an all-encompassing ideology,” said Santorum, a Penn State alumnus. “It is not just something you do on Sunday."

This isn't important to me just because I am married to the child of Holocaust survivors, but I also want to agree that those events are not ancient history.

Wait - Rick Santorum is saying he's only Christian one day out of seven?

I do, however, find it heartening to see people like yourself - and OK I know there are many, but never enough - there can never be too many! - who call this shit for what it is, who are livid about it and who, I am sincerely grateful to be able to say, will never shut up and let it pass unremarked. You are absolutely right to point out that letting these things become "normal" makes them even more dangerous. Like letting people say it's just "common sense" - the thing about "common sense" is you're not supposed to question it, analyse it, debate it, criticise it ... because it's common sense ("it's just human nature" is another one, particularly useful (like "it's just a joke, you don't have any sense of humour do you) in justifying the sexist and racist flavours on offer at the great banquet of crap). (With apologies for the unprovoked abuse of punctuation and especially parentheses.)

You totally made me smile and remember that there are people in this world who want to set things right.

*gives you internet cookies*

I'm at the point of sputtering incoherance, myself, for everything fron the casual anti-Semitism on LJ and the blatant neonativism on talk radio to the recent statement by my state's attorney general that Indian Treaties were old-fashioned and we should move beyond them (he flunked constitutional law, is all I can guess).

No matter how far I lower my expectations, there's always an unexplored abyss of dumb below.

Julia, and way too many people confuse "let me think about it" with "let me batten down my bigotry"

Perhaps it's because I don't play in fandom at all, but I have no idea what you are referencing here. What the hell happened? I'm totally oblivious.

There's been a spate of ugliness.

here, in my lj, I reference some of it and respond.

Not only am I appalled at that one commenter's oblivious anti-semitism, I'm disgusted by the LJ owner's not calling her on that crap. Freedom of speech means that the government can't throw you in jail for what you write. It doesn't mean that you can spew ignorant hateful crap without being called on it. Good for you and your friends for speaking up.

*Reads offensive post* Boy, do we have soome chlorine to administer to the gene pool. Gregat googly moogly, I hope your son gets his mitts, a chainsaw, and a cheese grater on this guy's ass. But it's /nothing/ compared to a snippet I heard on an AM talk radio station. I only got a snippet, but the host was talking about the Mexican government firing on people a few hundred yards on our side of the border 2 or so years ago. Anyone have ANY idea what he could be talking about? All I know is that just by listening to this guy I decided if he said the sun was shining, I'd grab an umbrella.

Liz, thanks as always for words of support and good sense.

Truthfully, what's been happening in LJ doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that our leaders seems to have much the same attitudes. Because those people have the power to undo liberties that I used to take for granted. Plus, as someone else noted, attitudes drift down from the top. If people feel that the government doesn't believe that Jews, Muslims, Gays, Blacks, etc. deserve the same rights they do, they're not going to extend them those rights.

*Hugs you*

Well said, Liz. Those of us who don't have this kind of crap aimed at our heads have a responsibility to fight it, because who knows when it could be our turn to be on the receiving end?
I wish I could sit on my side of the Canada-US border and say smugly that this is something that doesn't happen here. I would be wrong, wrong. The evil of bigotry and hatred is not stopped by borders, so it's incumbant upon all of us to call it out when we see it.

*whistles*
*stomps feet*
*applauds*

Thank you.

Here via

globalfruitbat - and cheering in teh aisles. I'm not American, so I don't feel I can presume to criticise your Powers That Be too much - in any case, I'm far too used to being called "Ugly Anti-American" if I do. But I respect you hugely for standing up and making your point so forcefully.

Thank you for this sensible post, Liz. The more I see the way people in the US can talk such drivel as some of the articles that you link to, without losing their jobs and being pilloried in the press, the more I worry for the world.

It's all part of the same poisonous atmosphere, it's all part of the same continuum of thought. And if you go against it that continuum of thought, if you say, "Hey, waitaminute here..." you are the one with the problem, you are the one being oversensitive, you are the one who's wrapped their tin-hat too tightly.

A-fucking-men. Ann Coulter on Big Idea is a perfect example. "That's not offensive at all! You shouldn't be offended by that!" Heaven forbid that she actually stop and think about what she's just said, and maybe apologize for it. What a fucktard.

any one who's evolved beyond the tribal monkey-brain should have figured out by now that this crap is just evil.

Yeah, I said it. Evil. Because that's exactly what it is.

*WILD THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE*

Thank you so much, Liz, for your eloquence, your fire, and for putting into words what so many of us feel. The price of freedom is eternal vigilence. I'm grateful that there are people like you on LJ, ready to defend that freedom.

And even though I know that not all of the racist-bigoted-ignorant folks out there subjecting ethnic and religious minorities to some pretty hateful crap are U.S. citizens, most of them are.

This is precisely why, as much as it scares me to live in this country as a queer and a transman, I can't leave. I'm just starting to get my feet under me in terms of activism and being able to express myself on these subjects, but I know something has to be done and I want to do it.

I haven't read every last thing that's been written about this lately, because I couldn't stomach all of it, but it's been a real education in anti-semitism, which is maybe the one -ism I hadn't seen in action before. So... I don't know what to say, myself, exactly, but thank you (and the others who've posted about this) for standing up for what's right and giving me an example to follow in my own fight.

Hallelujah, sister. As usual, you captured exactly what I'm thinking, but with a heck of a lot more eloquence and aplomb. Bravo.

I cringe at the ignorance, hatefulness, and out and out *venom* in the links you have up there. Oddly, the person who makes me just - *pant* with rage is Anne Coulter. She is so *smug* and sure and utterly *blind* to every single offensive, mis-guided, wrong-headed and *revolting* idea she has... Jayzus!

I love my country. I feel, as an American, i am *duty bound* to make it better. And sometimes it feels like all i'm doing is sticking my finger in the dyke while the waves crash over my head. It's good to know that the *majority* of my online community is there with sandbags and shovels to help hold back the tide.

Bravo!

nwhepcat is sitting on my sofa now, and I just read this whole post out loud to her. Her response was simply, "I love Liz."

I love you too. You put into words everything that I've been struggling to put into words for the past month — I was ranting to hep earlier today about the ugliness that seems to be so pervasive in LJ-land, and where it's coming from, and I think I was just sputtering at one point. You, on the other hand, are eloquent.

Thank you for saying this, and in a public place.

I wish I could adequately tell you, with full orchestration and five part harmony, how scary it is to sit across the pond and see people like Coulter, O'Reilly and their ilk not only get publicity, but apparently even get taken seriously.

And I wish I could adequately tell you how good it feels to know that there are still some people over there who feel just as outraged and dumbfounded as me.

Then again, I also wish I could tell you the same things weren't happening all over the world... I'm afraid we're slipping backwards on a species-wide scale. But the fact that people still speak up does show that there is hope. So thank you.

::sigh:: As I said in a recent discussion with a friend, the reason our species can't stop going to war is because we can't seem to stop thinking that country and race makes us so very DIFFERENT that one must be superior to another, and thus others inferior. We're NOT that different, we're all people, and I cannot for the life of me understand the concept of "We're better because we're white/Christian/American/All of the Above/None of the Above!"

I woke up this a.m. and realized that staying silent on this issue is no longer an option. Thanks for speaking out with such passion.

My boys are in the Scouts. They go for the old, first established ideas of teaching independence, ability to be relied upon, responsibility, all of those ideas. The old ideas and values in other words.

I want to volunteer mainly so I can keep an eye on what is going on and what is being said to my kids. The new leaders are more than a bit fanatical, claiming to believe is more important to understand.

You have to claim a religious affiliation. That bothers me, scares me even. I do not have a religious affiliation. I just left my church because of issues like the ones you presented.

I've considered claiming Buddhism.

I really appreciate this post. Thanks.

It is heartbreaking. Every time I read something like this I just think "But what can we do?" And not even in that rhetorical way that is the tool of the apathetic masses. In a serious, come on, the world can't be this stupid, there must be SOMETHING I can do to FIX something way. And I can never figure it out, and that's the most heartbreaking thing of all. We can rage at each other all we like, we can be rational and obvious willy-nilly, but none of it's getting through to the people who are causing the problems. Clearly, a different strategy is called for. It just seems so damn huge.

you are so awesome it hurts. *applauds*

Guilt....

As A - half - German I am immensely glad that we lost the war. After all came out, we couldn't hide the truth from ourselves anymore.

In the short term, guilt is the motivator, drag the truth out and show people what right cunts they are being - by the way, I'm not talking about the politicians and other rotten head types, but the average people which are not saying or doing anything especially bad, but who are petty in in their behavior to anyone different, and - more importantly - allow the public / important buggers to sprout their bull without protesting .- By doing this, you may not change anyones mind, but it will cause everyone to walk on eggshells, thinking about and modifying their behavior.

It will take long, but at some point people realize that "different" is in no way "worse". Realize is perhaps the wrong word; maybe insert "by default think" rather than realize.

You may say that this doesn't change the situation, there are still those in power that sprout their bull. Maybe, but one thing people in power like, is being in power. To go that extreme against your power base isn't what they do. After a while, even they will realize (or die, considering the time this is going to take).

Sincerely,

Ardanwen

P.S.: While I hope that you and your like minded Amis are capable of this, I do not think so, for people are resistant to admitting their own faults and would rather brush it under the carped - just compare German and Japanese post war behavior -.
On this depressing note, farewell.

*applauds*

Wonderful post. I love reading your posts of this type, because it beings up many points that I have completely missed or overlooked entirely. You are an awesome person.

Speaking as a historian, who tries to show these universal truths about human behavior to students nearly every day, amen.

It breaks my heart when I read midterm essays explaining how the Islamic world is narrow-minded and prejudiced and Europeans were noble. Did they sleep through the lectures on the Crusades and the Dark Ages? We spent an hour on the intellectual flowering of the medieval Islamic world. But they hear what they want to hear, because we all already know what Arabs are like, right? Never mind that most Moslems aren't Arabs. It's not all the students, not by a long shot, but how many Ann Coulters does it take to poison a society?

I can only post anonymously because my account is over at insanejournal.

There are lots of us who believe as you do- that one of the greatest patriotic acts an individual can do is to say that they think their government is headed down the wrong road. (Of course, when I said that I thought Bush was making a mess of things last month, a coworker tried to file a grievance... HR threw it out.)

Anyway, maybe we should thank Ann Coulter? I could post all day that she is a bigot and no one would notice (or they'd minimize it and say she is just being an entertainer like Limbuagh (and is there any man more devisive and manipulative than Rush?)) She showed herself to be exactly what she is more than I ever could. I'm hoping at least some of her fans take a step back and THINK...

The right wing seems like it's starting to fall apart. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21508301/

It was a matter of time- politics and religion make strange bedfellows.

If I, someone raised up in an ultra-conservative church (dominionists, I realize now) can grow up and learn to think on her own, then there must surely be others.

Anyway, thanks for putting a voice to the thoughts of so many.

Did you read some of the "pro-Coulter" comments that video got? Horrifying, and disgusting.

If had to think about this a bit before I responded and while I agree with the sentiment of your post I differ on a few things.

What you call evil I call reality. People suck! If something about you confuses or makes someone uncomfortable, alot of the time they are going to HATE you for it. But the kicker is it's not just you they'll hate. It'll be you, your family, your friends and anyone else that may happen to share that thing with you in common.

Why do they react like that? Is it because they were taught by their parents to hate that? In some cases yes. Is it because they recognize something in themselves and are ashamed? Again in some cases yes. Or is it they see what makes you different as a weakness and use you as a target to make themselves feel better? My opinion, most cases yes though they may not know it.

Utimately it may be in everyone's best interest to stop the hate mongering but the thing is they don't see it as hate mongering. They most likely see it as, "These are my thoughts so they must be right. Who the hell are you to say otherwise?"

Besides it's essentially loads of crap being flung thru the cage bars of their computer screens, do you really think these people are evolved beyond the tribal monkey-brain? ;)

Well that all I have to say except for one last depressing thing. The question is who is going to be writing this history? The intellegent people like you or the idiot masses who chase shiny objects and curse at you for asking them what they're doing?

I really wish I could bet on you.

I was directed here by a couple of different people.

I love history, but I think that there a lot of people in my generation that view it as irrelevant. In a way, the idea is that if it's not "right now," if it's not affecting them personally, then it doesn't matter. This is a lie, of course, and it does essentially equate to begging history to turn around and bite you in the ass.

Seeing the stuff on the FLDS, seeing this sort of thing now, I keep remembering Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale. The fact is, this sort of evil could happen today.

Glad to see I'm not crazy-I've been trying to tell people this for a while, but they're set on not listening. Looks like there's a few people who agree with you, though, me included-excellent post.

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The Problem With Fish...

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Guilt

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Cosigned