I've Had a Bad Week Anyway...

[liz_marcs]

Once more the wave of kerfluffle hits Buffy-verse fanfic.

I swear to God, it's become the annual right of spring. The same suspects are even involved.

And it's caused the same thing: the fundamental disconnect between people who hold two distinct theories of fanfiction.

There are issues over proper writing mechanics, themes, characterizations, subject matter, inaccurate and inappropriate appropriation of various cultures, and all of that. But every one of those issues still comes down to the same thing: the Disconnect (here now rendered with a capital "D") between two distinct theories of fanfiction.

On the one hand, you have people who look at fanfiction as a way to constantly challenge themselves and improve their writing.

On the other, you have people who look a fanfiction as a fun hobby and are less worried about the mechanics of it.

I suspect a few people will unfriend me over what follows beneath the cut. Fair enough. It's your right.

But this is my LJ. I pay for this space. I'll bitch if I want to.


For a little bit of my background in this particular kerfluffle, I'll link you to this thread from last year.

To sum up:

Normally, I wouldn't really stick a toe in the water over this. I'd do my usual sniggering in comments and leave it at that. I tangled with sexymermaid and her friends a couple of years ago over NWS manips not going behind an LJ-Cut and that was quite enough. I've got my own shit to worry about, yo. I'm not going to waste my time with people who steadfastly refuse to get it, and even if they did get it aren't going to listen to me anyway.

In either case, there was such a bad taste left in my mouth over that brou-hah-hah that when I did my DarkXander Fic-A-Thon in October, I specifically constructed the Sekrit Rools to discourage certain authors from participating, since Slave!Master fics were in vogue among them at the time. Slave!Master fics where the serious issue of slavery is not (IMHO) treated seriously squick me the fuck out and I won't link to them. I didn't want to start a kerfluffle if one was submitted and I refused to link to it, so I stated up front they wouldn't be acceptable.

Whether or not anyone in that group even thought of participating, I don't know. I actually kind of doubt they even clicked over to my LJ, since I'm nowhere near their corner of fandom and I'm most certainly not on their radar. Either way, I went the better-safe-than-sorry route.

The long and short of it is this: LJ is a pretty big place. I've happily cruised along in my corner without having to deal with people whose online behavior rubs me the wrong way. I can't say they're unpleasant individuals, per se, since I don't even know them and have never met them. I just didn't like dealing with them when I did cross paths. It was fairly easy to just retreat to my own corner and have fun with myself and others. (Wait...that doesn't sound right...)

In this latest mess, however, links are going around and I can actually trace what happened when and who said what. This time some of the posts are actually unlocked and I don't have to take a lot on hearsay, nor do I have to much worry about breaking a Flock if I talk about it.

Finally I could get to the source of this one.

Imagine my surprise when I found out that this latest kerfluffle blew up because someone made a criticism in her personal LJ and spoke only for herself about a fanfic she considers to be horribly OOC and poorly written. She only made vague reference to what is truly a hideous story in which Angel, for all intents and purposes, rapes Willow with a bar of soap and Willow is grateful for it. (This judgment that the story is hideous, by the way, is IMHO, and only IMHO since I'm not speaking for anyone else.)

That story was the thing that set her off.

Jesus, I don't blame her. That would set me off, too.

Next thing you know, the usual suspects started up with chants of "the crazy girls" and the "meeen girls" and the "twats over there" and the "they're jus' jelus."

I also learned a few important "facts" about fandom, "facts" which I had never known before:

• There's a certain clique in Buffy fandom made up of the the self-appointed arbiters of taste and act as the fandom police
  Me: There are? Where? All I see are a bunch of people stating their opinion about certain kinds of stories, not trying to shut down debate. In fact, I haven't seen one person say that people shouldn't write what they want to write or enjoy the stories they want to enjoy. The only thing I see is that they're sick and tired of sitting on their mouths because a bunch of drama queens get their panties in a bunch if there's so much as a hint that they're not universally loved. These people are hardly a clique and they hardly march in lock-step over anything.
  
  In fact, the only people I see trying to shut down the debate over OOC vs. IC and good writing vs. bad writing are the ones throwing around the "jus' jelus" and "they're meeeen" comments.
  
  
  
• This clique is making fandom so unpleasant these days.
  Me: Spoken like people who weren't in online fandom when Buffy S6 and S7 was airing first-run. You want unpleasant? That was unpleasant. This? Pffffft. Not unpleasant. Buffy fandom is downright harmonious compared to the way it used to be. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Buffy fandom is a very pleasant place.
  
  Hell, it's been pretty good to me. But then again, I don't attack every Tom, Dick, and Harry who disagrees with me, either. Maybe that has something to do with it. In either case, if you think it's unpleasant when most people I deal with think it's actually very pleasant, have you considered the problem might be...well...you?
  
  
  
• People shouldn't criticize what they don't like. They should just ignore it. Don't like, don't read.
  Me: The same might apply to you, sport. When someone posts a rant on their personal journal and doesn't even name names, you can scroll on by, too. That shit goes both ways, grasshopper. It strikes me as just a leeeeeetle unfair that you think "don't like, don't read" should only apply to your fannish output.
  
  This point also comes down to the fundamental Disconnect. Some people really do view fanfic as a way to improve their writing. Since I'm in that camp, and speaking only for myself, once upon a time I thought everyone thought that way. I've since learned otherwise. However, it's not always easy to figure out who's who when it comes to giving FB and concrit. I even now occasionally overstep the bounds set by the writer and have gotten nailed for it.
  
  That said, just because I (or anyone else) have gotten the message that concrit isn't welcome, doesn't mean that I (or anyone else) has given up the right to bitch about it when we find fanfic that makes our eyes burn.
  
  
  
• They're targeting one writer because she's popular and they're not.
  Me: No. They're up in arms over sexymermaid because she compared a criticism of her story that was published on someone's personal LJ in a post where she wasn't even named to being raped. Maybe it's because it was a truly insulting comparison that rubbed a bunch of people the wrong way. Maybe it's because this is the straw that's finally broken the camel's back. Maybe because she has a history of this kind of crap and enough is enough. Either way, yes, fingers are getting pointed at her because of it. And know what? People should be pointing fingers. Criticism does not equal rape, no matter how you slice it. Ask anyone on my Flist who's actually been sexually assaulted. I'm very sure they'll include some choice words in their response.
  
  Besides, I feel that I must point out something: Some of the people who are coming out of the closet and naming names are actually popular writers themselves. Just because you don't read them or haven't heard of them doesn't mean they're not. All it means is that they're not popular in your online circles. That's it.
  
  If you want to know the truth, unless there's a kerfluffle, sexymermaid doesn't even show up on my fanfic radar. I tried reading her early stories when her stuff would show up on su_herald and I didn't like them. Since I saw her rude responses to people who tried to leave concrit about her inaccurate history, borderline racist handling of certain cultures, her use of rape/slavery for strictly titillation purposes, and her incorrect grammar, I didn't bother commenting and made a mental note to avoid her stories in the future (that would be me practicing "don't like, don't read" in case your wondering). If it weren't for the annual kerfluffle, which always ends with her threatening to leave fandom or Flock her journal, I wouldn't know that she's still writing fanfiction that she labels as taking place in the Buffy-verse.
  
  Yet, she's supposedly a very popular writer, one that's so popular that she's got a FList of hundreds, with hundreds of lurkers more. You can't tell that by me.
  
  What I'm trying to say is simple: one person's BNF is another person's "Who?" For reals. The Internet is a humbling place like that.
  
  Now, aside from the fact that these "jelus fanfic writers" are actually popular (not to mention fantastic) writers themselves, some of them are also professional writers. As in they get paid. And some of them have published books you can buy at a book store. Trust me. They're not jealous about someone's popularity in the realm of fanfic. Mystified, maybe, but not jealous. The last thing they need or want is to get into an online kerfluffle about fanfic.
  
  And finally, these people also happen to be very smart, and very nice people. For them to start making public posts about this means they've had it with the shenanigans. By my count, it's taken at least two years for this to explode out in the open. That says a lot of good things about them.
  

Well, anyway, I think it's pretty clear that I'm made of fail here, because I'm reading all of these points and I just don't get it.

So, I'll just put my own pearls of wisdom out there. Not that I think I'm going to convince anyone, but my .02. Please note that "you" is being used in the general sense, and is not aimed at one particular person:

• Not everyone's gonna love your work. Hell, not everyone's even going to like your work. When people say bad things about your fannish output, they are not saying bad things about you. Most people don't even know you, so any judgment they make is based on your work and nothing more than that. So put on your big girl panties, stop accusing people of making it personal when they most certainly did not, and move the fuck on.
  
  
• Even if your work is generally liked, you're not going to score 100% on your fannish output. Some of the shit you do is not going to be popular, even if you think it's under appreciated. Accept that some fannish works are hits, some are misses, and learn the lessons both have to impart.
  
  
• If you've got enough people voicing the exact same criticism about your work, maybe there's a point in there you should pay attention to. I'm not saying you have to, I'm just saying that maybe you ought to think about it before you dismiss other people's opinions. At the end of the day, you can accept or reject those opinions. It's up to you. But don't be shocked if those criticisms persist.
  
  
• If you put yourself out there, accept you're going to get some hard knocks from complete strangers. It's happened to me. It's happened to other people. It happens to everyone. It's no different for you. You are not a special little snowflake, and no one is going to spare your feelings just because you're you. If you don't like it, don't put yourself out there. It's really that simple.

Yes, yes. I know I'm making fandom sound like a nasty, brutish place. But it really isn't. Sure, you've got your subset of bullies — and it's funny how I'm looking at the group making the accusations of bullying because no matter how hard I squint, I can't for the life of me see any bullies among the accused — but in general fandom is a pleasant place. The key is to not be unpleasant yourself. More flies with honey and all that.

The fact is, no one is saying don't write what you want to write. No one is saying don't read what you want to read. What they are saying is that people have a right to dislike a story, be offended by how some subject matter is treated, to criticize a piece of fannish work that's been put in the public sphere for consumption by the teeming millions, and to anti-recommend it if they see fit.

And you know what? They do. They really do. And they've got a right to do it publicly, just like you've got the right to do what you do publicly.

It's not censorship (let's not get into how much I hate people throwing that word around when it's clear they have no idea what censorship means). It's not bullying. It's not kicking you like you're a helpless a puppy. And starting drama whenever someone says they don't like your work or your online behavior is not making you look like the adult, especially since this drama is over fanfiction.


Well, that was a lot of .02. Sorry to take up people's time with a tl;dr post.

Comments

[globalfruitbat.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for making this post. As the icon says, I'm so sick of this "You can't touch me! You can't touch meeeee!...But let me slap you some." attitude that followed Snow's original post. Don't like, Don't read goes both way, yanno? And naming names, and linking links, really is the best way. (I think Stoney had a post along those lines...)

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

When I read Stony's post, I admit I was gleefully snickering because, shit, sexymermaid and her posse were at it again. Then I started clicking the links and following the trail, most of which was actually open this time.

The amount of ugly that was there shouldn't have surprised me, given my one and only run-in with them, but the whole attitude of: "I have a right to shoot my mouth off, but they don't." really got on my tits. Plus, this whole assumption that the fanfic end of Buffy fandom was this nasty brutish place full of jealous lurkers just waiting to stab someone in the back when they got too popular...AAARRRGGGGHHHH! I've never even run into that.

But, yeah. It was the entitlement that finally got to me. It shouldn't have, but it really did. To make it even more annoying, sexymermaid is again threatening to FLock herself away from fandom (I forget how many times she's threatened this now...)

Good gravy. Enough is enough.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight:

1. Person writes a story about Angel raping Willow with a bar of soap, for which Willow is grateful. (And may I just say, ouch!)

2. Someone criticizes this fic in her personal journal.

3. Original writer compares this criticism to rape. And isn't grateful.

Huh?!?

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

Liz and I don't run in precisely the same LJ circles, so I've missed basically ALL of this kerfuffle -- this is the first I've seen of it. I've certainly heard grumblings in the past about SM's faithful fen, but nothing recently. I'm just astounded.

[altyronsmaker.livejournal.com]

Here here!

To this ENTIRE post. Unfortunately, the people who need to read it probably won't. Dammit.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Oh, hell no. I'm not even on their radar. (I like it just fine that way.)

And even if they do, I suspect they'd still see it as a personal attack.

[fadethecat.livejournal.com]

You know, I've occasionally given up on various community bits of my preferred fandom because I didn't like the flamewars, or just because some interpretations of canon annoyed me that much. Easier to write the fanfic in peace, show it off to a few friends, and consider it writing practice.

But this? This makes my fandom look like happy kittens playing in rainbow-covered meadows of lollipops and fluffy pillows. I shudder to imagine what Buffy fandom must have been like in seasons 6 and 7.

You are a braver being than I to deal with this kind of stuff.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I'm actually not that brave, because I don't much deal with it. I usually stay the hell out of it unless I see something that I perceive as bullying behavior. Plus, there's some people making wild accusations that are simply not true. That gets on my nerves.

A lot of the unpleasantness in S6 and S7 was fandom-wide and primarily about shipping, not just in the fanfic end. There were a lot of reasons for it and no one was innocent of wanking (not even me), but hey, the past is the past. Grow up and move on, I say. You can kind of see vague echoes of the S6 and S7 nastiness now that the comic books are coming out, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was.

Your icon says it all, really. There are cycles in every fandom. This seems to be the cycle in Buffy/AtS fandom. Every spring, there's a big drama-lama involving one particular author. It flares up on the edges of my FList in locked posts, and then it goes away. I think it would've this time, too, had not the stupid comment been made about criticism = rape. It got enough people angry that they're now being public about their displeasure.

[minim_calibre]

Me: Spoken like people who weren't in online fandom when Buffy S6 and S7 was airing first-run. You want unpleasant? That was unpleasant. This? Pffffft. Not unpleasant. Buffy fandom is downright harmonious compared to the way it used to be. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Buffy fandom is a very pleasant place.

Truer words, man. Truer words.

I baffle. I really, really do.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

*nod-nod-nod*

I just want to know where all this meanness is supposedly coming from because I haven't run into it in years. I had to sit on my hands so I wouldn't ask where they're getting this idea because I sure as hell don't see it.

The original post that kicked this all off was so vague, that unless you read the story in question you'd think it was just a general rant which people do all the time. It's the escalation that seems to have brought out all the weeping and wailing.

[rileysaplank.livejournal.com]

Okay, I know I'm only on the fringes of Fandom but this is DeJa Vu all over again. Do people not get bored discussing the same subject and offering the same viewpoints year after year?

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

You would think. *rolls eyes*

The thing that makes this one different is now it's gone fully public. Personally, I was shocked to discover that half my Flist is some kind of meen girl clique banding together to squash one person. I learn something new every day.

Maybe I should've kept my mouth shut, but in following the links, I saw some truly unfair things said and some truly unfair accusations. There are most certainly bullies in this picture, but it's not the people getting accused of bullying.

[crowgirl13.livejournal.com]

Your .02 type posts always bring me glee... and remind me why I don't participate much at all in Greater Fandom, of any stripe. But then, I'm all for common sense, 'honey versus vinegar' and oh BECOMING A BETTER WRITER by sharing my sandbox with folks who are interested in doing the same. Big Girl Panties are much more comfy when not bunch-y.

In other words... well, WORD.

*gives you a gold star*

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I'm not really in it either. I just have a very big FList. ^_^

Overall, I just enjoy hanging in my corner and doing my thing, like you. But this one...*shakes head*

There's some pretty nasty splooge going on all because one person was offended/unhappy with one story. (One really bad story that actually was somewhat offensive in my eyes.) Usually it dies out, but the escalation has been quite something.

I certainly don't expect a damn thing to get resolved, but I'm honestly sick of people with bunch-y panties telling other people to sit down and STFU.

[globalfruitbat.livejournal.com]

And hey -- middle of May, right? Maybe the Hellmouth has started to blow again!

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Hee! Yes! I didn't even think of that!

[nycorson.livejournal.com]

You know i am almost scared to comment, I am so far out on the verges of fandom most of these people I don't even know, and here I thought I wrote quite a bit. But you know most of my "crit" response tend to be along the lines of "I did? Can you give me an example or tell me how you think it should have been phrased." Or at worst I simply go, "You might be write, but this is my story and I chose to write it this way." You can't please everyone with your writing, heck I am ususally happy at least some people seem to like what I write.

I just worry reading a few of your posts, makes me very glad I am not more visible to the fan-fic world.

[nycorson.livejournal.com]

write = right... this is why I read my stuff over and over and over again, it sounds right, it reads wrong.

[soundingsea.livejournal.com]

Man, the more I read about this particular kerfluffle, the happier I am that I read the "mean girls" and not the so-called "victims". 'Cause for some reason the "mean girls" are, you know, reasonable. Argv.. the emotional blow of being (gasp) disliked is NOTHING like a violation of one's person. *stabbity*

I also wasn't aware that there were Fandom Police. Are they taking applications? 'Cause I know I have lots of spare time for a thankless job. ;)

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Nonononono.

You do not want to be fandom police. It's a thankless job and people hate you if you reject their stories for not meeting certain standards set by the site owner. I'm one of the moderators over on the I Need A Parrot fanfic archive, and that's close enough, kthx.

But, yeah, comparing criticism of one story to rape is insulting to say the least.

[nocturnalista.livejournal.com]

Some people take themselves far to seriously. And some people just need drama in their lives to feel important. Oy.

Comparing criticism to rape is disgusting. This person needs some serious grow-up mojo.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

nod-nod-nod

From what I understand, the post has been altered and/or locked, so it's not accessible any more. It appears it finally got through that it wasn't a good comparison.

But the annual drama-lama...yeah.

[invisionary.livejournal.com]

I find myself weary of characterization arguments these days. I mean, there's only so many times you can see a story where the characterization is so awful that you can't even recognize the people named in it, and yet the story has pages upon pages of comments with people gushing with praise for it and saying how wonderful and in-character it is, before you just have to throw up your hands and say "fuck it," you know?

My opinions on characterization are just that - my opinions. I don't try to force them on anyone else.

However, speaking only for myself here, I do think that there's such a thing as objectively bad writing. I've seen stories where the spelling and grammar was bad enough to make my eyes bleed and/or the writing was so incoherent that I literally could not follow what was supposed to be going on. And if someone puts a story like that out there for public consumption, well, they shouldn't be surprised if and when it provokes a negative reaction.

(Note that I'm just speaking in general here. I haven't read the specific story in question and I have no desire to).

Oh, and comparing vaguely worded criticism to rape? That's over the line. Hell, the nastiest, most vicious flame you could get on the internet doesn't compare to rape. Please.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Lucky for all of us, the author in question (IMHO) has objectively bad writing to go with it. She's had negative reaction on several fronts (not just characterization) for at least two years. My issues with her stories have been what I view as cavalier treatment of certain subjects (rape, slavery, borderline racist cultural appropriation).

But, hey, people enjoy her stories. Live and let live. She's not writing for me, and I'm not her audience.

The problem comes in is that she consistently goes bananas when someone makes a criticism that she even thinks is aimed at her. The people around her do the same thing. This is the first time it's gone all sploogey in public, since in the past the snarking has been behind locks.

But, yeah, the reaction tends to be over the line. This case especially, since the story and the author wasn't even named in the criticism.

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Oh, Liz. I love the reporter in you. If I can get up BAHStan way, I'm buying you a beer and listening to all the great stories you have to tell.

Oh, and adis_723 had a great post about all of this, if you hadn't read it. And if you're just done with the whole thing, that's certainly understandable.

*squish*

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

That would be adis723, derp.

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

I'm on the sidelines with this one as I'm not in the Buffy fandom nowadays (partly because I stopped feeling in tune with it because of the rise of a new wave of writers like SM who seemed to have watched an entirely different show) and I'm just flailing a little, with people I like and respect on both sides feeling some hurt and upset, but this, yes, this I can get behind 100%.

You speak for me.

I don't know SM personally. She's never been someone I read much; I left concrit early on when she'd just started writing because she didn't know the difference between 'it's' and 'its' and I questioned her decision to spell Riley's name wrong on purpose as he was a villain in one fic and a good character in this (or the other way 'round) and she didn't want to confuse her readers.

That still gets my 'wtf?' face.

Then she started writing nothing but severely OOC AUs and I lost all interest apart from wide-eyed horrified giggling over some of the direst of the 'minaps'.

I think of her as a fandom of her own; she's not writing Buffyverse fics, not really.

It used to bother me that people would think she was a good representative of a Buffy fanfic writer with a sound grasp of the canon and the characters but I'm older, wiser, tireder now.

And several fandoms away :-)

But the rape comment -- which I'd like to see for myself but I assume it's locked? -- if it's as reported is just a little too much.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

A lot of people are drifting away. RL, the shiny, the decision to move forward with original fic...it happens. *sniffs sadly*

I'm just trying to finish up the commitments I already have, especially since RL has kicked into overdrive on me. But, yeah, some of the writers who are coming up now seem to have watched something completely different...or not even watched it at all (which I seem to recall is SM's claim to fame).

What's really funny is that if it wasn't for the yearly wank that splashes over into my corner, I wouldn't even know she was that huge. I mean, seriously, it's like there's an SM hole in my net, and between my FList and my FList's FList I've got a pretty big net that covers quite a bit of BtVS, BSG, SG:A, and Supernatural fandom at this point.

As for the rape comment, I'm very sure I saw it yesterday when I was clicking around links while waiting for a meeting. From what I understand, the comment has since been edited and/or flocked. I looked for it just before posting this entry and it was gone. I think I got confirmation that the edit/flock happened on Snow's journal. I think? So many links and they're all starting to blur, especially with my allergy meds kicking in.

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

(Using Kesey again, because, well: REAL writer. With, like, real editors).

The level of flat-footed, badly punctuated, OOC dreck present in the daily output of BtVS fanwriters has a lot to do with my withdrawal from active, daily recommendations posts. It just got to be too much work to get through the dross and find the gold.

The vitriol Snow's post was met with isn't surprising; among the "fanfic for fun, devil take the hindmost" crowd, criticising a story is very much assumed to be criticising its author's personal value, social status, and body odor.

Julia, having gotten battered by another funeral, and perhaps a bit impatient with such trivial matters as concrit

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Oh, man! I'm sorry! I've been personna non person on LJ lately, so I didn't know. I'm sorry about the funeral. It seems that everyone has those years where they're constantly going to them. I'm sorry that it seems to be yours. *hugs*

But as for the real writer and real editor thing, yeah. Once you've been batted around like a cheap cat toy by people who get paid to do it, concrit has less of a sting. Which is why I thought the reaction Snow's post, which in and of itself was made of nothing more than gossamer if you had no idea what she was referring to (and I didn't when I saw it), was so completely beyond the pale for the perceived offense.

[midnightfae.livejournal.com]

*blink*

You know... Fandom is a scary place.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I certain breed of fans are scary people. *shakes head*

But I'm mystified by this weird power that I've seen being held over different people's heads. I don't get it. I wasn't even aware there were sides. All I know is that every year, like clockwork, the same fight happens over the same damn thing.

Thanks for clarifying

[tesla321.livejournal.com]

I've never been able to finish any of sexymermaid's stories, to the point where I didn't even know who was being kerfuffled. I was kind of mystified about the whole thing---shows that I don't run in the right circles, I suppose.

But it all works out, because she doesn't read me, either. That I know of. And neither do any of her buddies. Somehow, I manage to get up every morning and have a real life without worrying about it.

Re: Thanks for clarifying

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha!

Me, too! I'm very sure SM wouldn't know me from a hole in the wall.

The only reason why I know about this is because it's splashed across my FList on occasion. This is the first year that everything blew up in public instead of behind a FLock, and I suspect that it's because the escalation was so over the top.

It's sad because there are people on the edges on both sides of the debate who I genuinely do like, but there seems to me to be a big disconnect between what's criticism and what's a personal attack. The thing that started this whole thing was a vague post where names weren't even named. It's totally baffling.

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

Hmm. This kerfluffle has hit the edge of my Flist. Now I know what it was about. Good to know.

I long ago learned to be very careful who I gave legitimate concrit to. Most people don't get it. I'll say a few words, give a few compliments if I can and go on. If I point out something I think could be improved it means I deeply respect you as a writer. Otherwise I don't bother.

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

As always, Liz, your take on this kind of weirdness is both educational and entertaining. I had seen some of this on Stoney's Lj and on Southernbangel's as well, but was totally clueless about the background. Am I a bad person for admitting I find it strangely amusing? There's something about this kind of wankage that makes me shake my head and wonder about the state of the fandom world in general. It's just mind boggling, really.
I'm not a writer; I am a reader of fanfic, so I suppose I have a vested interest in the fandom worlds I read in (Buffy, BSG, Farscape), and I really appreciate the fact that others are willing to wade through the drek to find the good for me to read. I haven't heard of this particular person, or ever seen any of the fic in question...and I don't intend to! I like my fic to be consistent with canon, respectful of the characters, and well written, with attention to little things like grammar and spelling.
I guess I'll stay here in my little corner of LJ, and be grateful I have people like you, and Stoney, and A2Zmom, and Wisteria on it. I can read any of the stuff you all write, and know there is a very good chance I will be entertained and moved by it, and that if I don't agree with something in a story, I won't be thwacked on the head for saying so.
Thanks for the most enlightening rant I've read in ages!

[mzlizzy.livejournal.com]

y'know the whole thing reminds me of the time I spent doing Live Help for an online penpal club for girls 7 to 17. Most of the active members were 10-13, and we spent a lot of time clearing up 'she was mean to me, punish her' messes.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Heeeee! Yis. Exactly. This is it exactly.

Disagreement is not evil. Really.

[adis723.livejournal.com]

Well I, of course, agree. Obviously, you were nicer about it all than I was. *g*

What I found funniest was that only one person openly took offense to my post, this person called me horrible, then linked to my post and called all those that agreed with me 'batshit crazy' in big letters. Literally. It was even said that I should flock my post regarding the fringe of this matter. Yeah, and we're the mean ones, right. Eh, whatever. Buffyverse wank is so cute these days, nothing like the teeth gnashing and flesh rending of yore.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Ay, ay, ay!

The person who went off on you regularly comments here. I would've never expected that reaction from them. They struck me as fairly level-headed on the whole, so that was pretty surprising.

I generally found what few of SM's stories I've read to be offensive and/or frustrating in some manner, but, eh. There's no point in going nuts about it if I don't have to, especially since my opinion would've been thrown out anyway. The only reason I got set off was because of the whole criticism = rape thing and the fact it was set off by what was (IMHO) an innocuous rant.

But, yeah. The shipper wars were, without a doubt, where the real flesh-eating happened. This is a tempest in a teacup and it'll blow over just as quickly.

[othercat.livejournal.com]

I'm still going "The hell?" over "my fic was critiqued harshly, I feel as if I were raped!" from sexymermaid. I completely missed this kefluffle due to my brains having been stolen by new fandoms. I only heard about it from Ladycat, a few days ago...:>

Sexymermaid and her friends, allies and chattels make my head hurt . I won't go so far as to say anything melodramatic like "they have killed my lurve for fandom/my pairings/this genre of fanfic" but my feeling of repugnance for the Drama she seems to wallow in comes pretty close.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I thought it was school eating your brain. Have you considered naming all your teachers like they were part of a superhero team? That always cheered me up. "It's Droning Man! Able to put you to sleep with the power of his voice!" "It's Denial Woman! Able to incite rage in women for declaring that feminism is no longer necessary!"

(I've been bad about commenting...RL is keeping me hopping...and fanfiction deadlines...ARRRGHHH!)

But, yeah, the whole thing makes my head hurt. I don't understand the overwhelming need to defend someone when their name wasn't even mentioned. That post could've been referring to just about anyone. It's a mystery.

[kristinholt.livejournal.com]

I love you.

You are just made of awesomeness.

:D

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Plenty of people disagree, but I will take awesomeness where I can get it. ^_^

[timeofchange.livejournal.com]

R: your comments about concrit and some writers not interested in working on their writing...yeah. It's hard, when you see glimmers of something more, not to make encouraging, concrit noises. And kind of shocking to get slapped down for it. But the fandom is a large and wonderful place. One of the most amazing things about it is that I regularly find new writers with amazing gifts. The ones with potential but no discipline? I'm happy to walk on by.

Maybe it's age? Maybe it's the fact that I've made my living as a writer for over 30 years? But if somebody just wants to have fun with words, I say they should go for it. Even if I don't want to read the output. Really. I mean, they could be doing something so much worse than mangling the language. And you have to work so hard to get better. Seriously. It's hard to be good. Really hard. You have to put in a lot of unpleasant hours for every pleasant one. You have to acknowledge that you sometimes (often) suck. You have to learn how to take criticism. You have to learn how to balance passion and ego with hard work and humility.

Well, preaching to the choir here, I know. Really, I'm just here to say "hi!"

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. I'd rather bypass a writer (or a story) that I don't enjoy than cause drama. What set me off was comparing a vague criticism to rape, which no...just no.

But the fact is, I think most people who write (whatever they write...it doesn't really matter) like having fun with words, or putting out that silly little piece of writing just because it makes them happy. Christ, I'd be the last person to say that people shouldn't enjoy whatever it is they write or read. But people have a right to like it or not like it. Them's the breaks and you learn to roll with it. I'm totally with you on that.

That doesn't stop me from sweating blood on even inconsequential fluff, tho. Throw in a fanfic deadline and a story you're not sure even works *glares at lynnvetational entry* and yeah, sometimes the hours just crawl by.

I honestly think the eye rolling would've stayed behind flocks if it wasn't for the insane follout over a post that was so vague that most people didn't even know what it was referring to. It was the escalation that brought this to a head, an unnecessary escalation.

I'm not sure age is so much a factor as it is experience. When SM was starting out, I made (to myself anyway) allowances for her sometimes over-the-top responses to crit. I figured, eh, she's new. She'll learn like everyone else that you can't be universally loved and hopefully she'll improve at least on that front. Two yeas later, she's thinner-skinned than she was when she started. It's mystifying.

[quinntzadok.livejournal.com]

When I first saw all the responses to this debate popping up all over I was rather confused. Still am. BUT, I just have to say this post was great. I have no idea what/why/where (I think I have the gist) sparked all of the kerfuffle, and I think maybe I don't care because reading all the resulting tissy is keeping me entertained. ;)

There's a certain clique in Buffy fandom made up of the the self-appointed arbiters of taste and act as the fandom police

Can I send them an invitation? ;) I need the feedback.

*snicker*

Seriously though, this was a good addressing of some of the flimflam floating around. I'm big with the not reading if I don't like what I see the first go around, and no warnings or a hat-tip to the fact there doesn't need to be any warnings, well, I just don't read. Been burned too many times. There just isn't enough brain bleach in the world to counter some of the rancid stuff out there. After the whole spatula-specula thing I just stop trying.