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bounce...bounce...bounce...*screeeeeeeech*...wha da fu--?
In which I show the love...
Making Fiends is awesome, so big love goes out![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
hjcallipygian and szandara for pointing me to 14 Flash Episodes of Wicked Pissah Awesomeness.
Making fiends, making fiends, Vendetta's always making fiends, while Charlotte makes friends...
Heeeeee! I wanna be Vendetta, complete with Russian accent.
I won't get started on "The Vegetable Song."
In which I bring my brother over to the Dark Side...
Had a good Thanksgiving in the form of Mom's homecooked meal. (What? Me? Cook?)
Got my brotherdrmercurious to sell his soul to LJ (although some of his friends are already on board). His first entry? And God said, "Let There Be Strangeness," And LO, there were fundamentalist Christians.
Unh-hunh.
And you thought I was trouble. Dude, he makes me look normal by comparison.
In which Mom and Dad buy my combined Birthday/Holiday present and I cheer...
Yes, yes. Day after Thanksgiving. Mass consumerism. Must avoid.
However, I need new clothes for work and Kohls was having massive pre-noon clothing sales. Mom and Dad combined my Birthday and Holiday presents and took me on a little spree.
Then I hit DSW where I got me two pairs of spiffy shoes to go with the clothes.
In which I plead for people to be nice to retail employees this year...
Then, thanks to a generous financial contribution (another combined Birthday/Holiday present) from my Aunt and her Sweetie, I bought a Rio Forge MP3 Flashplayer that I've been salivating over now for the past six months.
I did run into a little Best Buy annoyance when the people in the wireless department were shooting the shit and refused to answer my questions (I hadn't yet made up my mind to buy it). Instead, they said I should talk to someone lower on the sales floor totem pole. First I asked a person in a blue shirt who was nice and polite, but he explained that he did stock and didn't know anything about MP3 players. He pointed the wireless department people and said I should ask them.
Annoyed, I stomped over to the department next door and said, "Look, I just have two questions about the MP3 players, can anyone here help me since I'm being sent all over the store?" One of the people there was more than willing to help and answered my questions about the Rios. I got his name and made sure to grab a manager on the way out the door and sang this guy's praises to high heaven. I threw in the catch-phrase: "If he didn't take the time to talk to me, you would have lost a sale."
I also made sure to sing the praises of the stock room guy who was polite, told the truth about not knowing the products, and for correctly pointing out the people who should have helped me, but refused to even answer a single question.
Think it was mean?
I'm working Borders tomorrow, so I'll be on the other side. I worked Borders for three years. And no, it is not in the least bit unfair.
When a customer sings your praises to the floor manager, it actually counts for a lot. Some retail stores during this busy time of year will even give a gift cetificate for merchandise or a small cash bonus to the praised employee(s) when a customer goes out of their way to say something nice.
Managers get a lot of bitchy complaints (more than half of which are unfounded) during Christmas shopping season, so they're thrilled when a customer bothers to take the time to say that the floor sales people did a great job and it will actually benefit said retail employee(s).
When you work as a minimum wage slave like I have, those "little" incentives mean a hell of a lot, especially if you're worried about how you're going to afford holiday presents this year.
So, ummm, not to get preachy or anything, but if a retail employee goes out of his or her way to help you out, especially when things are crazy in the store, go out of your way to find a manager and tell them that the retail employee did a good job.
Please.
Do it for me, the person who'll be pulling a couple of holiday shifts at Borders.
In which I ask the age-old question: Why do some people insist on being *&(#!^^#! negative?
It all starts with a reasonable question on a certain wanktastic, character-centric, BtVS fic list: "What is the status of the Scoobs with New Council?" I can only assume the person asking wanted to know for fic reasons.
So, a few of us answer based on what little we know, thanks to S5 AtS. Nothing earth shattering. Just a list of bare-bone facts, along with a certain amount of fanwank (which we all clearly marked as fanwanks where applicable).
Cue entry of the wank brigade! Most notably the amazing negative nellies who refuse to see anything in a positive light.
I roll my eyes and pretty much stop reading half-way through the first day. (Those wankers! They move sooooooo fast!) The thing is, I have a real life. I was on deadline for a project that required me to focus on the wonderful world of cardiovascular health. Writing about cardiovascular health wins since I actually get paid for that.
Plus, I'm in the middle of writing a fic that I enjoy writing. People reviewing are willing to politely state what they like, don't like, and point out typos. Wank is kept to a minimum. Since writing for LJ is a hell of a lot more pleasant than getting even remotely involved in wank, I don't bother to check where it's going off hours.
So, I come back today and start clicking through this certain wanktastic list while trying to construct the next chapter (mostly because I needed a brain-break and hadn't checked in for a few days).
And lo! The "debate" (and I use the term loosely) has now descended into wankery. And name calling. I, it appears, have a "victim complex." Other people are dense. Or stupid. Or whatever the fuck they're supposed to be.
Let's not get into the character bashing now already in progress. No. Really. Let's not.
I'm not even getting involved. I posted twice (answers the first time, refutation of someone else's negative take the second) and I really have nothing more to say.
Can someone please tell me why this list is so amazingly wanktastic? Can someone tell me why there seems to be this incredible inability to agree to disagree? Why is it that just about every damned debate literally descends into a contest where you want to ask the combatants, "Let's all just whip our dicks out and see who's is bigger?"
And it's only gotten worse in recent months.
My own brother, who is highly amused by wank in all its forms, says he can't even look at this list without his eyeballs bleeding. My fave criticism while we were setting up his LJ: "What is the deal with all the anime crossovers? No. Wait. What's the deal with all the crossovers with bad anime?"
Since my brother was watching anime before it was "cool" and in the original Japanese (read: before you could get anything more than bootlegged copies of anime that had been converted from PAL to NTSC VHS), when he says something is bad anime or that some of the crossovers with the chosen anime make no sense whatsoever to him, I'm going to take him at his word.
I think, in his phrase, he called this list a wanktastic, crossover hell. Heh. That's about spot-on. He's about ready to write a fic that'll cause people's heads on the list to explode, which, on further reflection, would be kind of awesome if he did.
Not that I'm encouraging him or anything.
In all honesty, I can understand why there are authors who've walked away from the list, will not publicize their LJ locations, and have started refusing to post their fic there.
It's frustrating as hell. I've all but stopped reading (the "New Council" question was the first message I had even read since I stopped writing Living History) and I'm seriously considering walking away, even though the list has a positively huge membership and potential readership for the fanfic I write.
Truthfully, I'm not sure it's worth the aggravation. Between the unbelievably high signal-to-noise ratio, the monthly explosions of nasty wank, a lot of stories that are simply crap, and the inability to even find the stories I want to follow among the posts, I'm ready to throw in the towel.
Why am I still there? Why?
Oh. Wait. Because the sane wing of this list needs everyone they can get. Still, I'm questioning whether I want to continue on in the Fellowship of the Few, the Proud, and the Brave.
The tinfoil quotient. It burnses. The sad thing is, all BtVS characters seem to have this tinfoil hat brigade (which is far less pronounced for AtS). Even more sad, almost all fangroups seen to be defined by the extremes. But I'm sick of being lumped in with the extremes that hang this group or being perceived as one of the extremists because I'm a member of this list.
I've said it once, I'll say it again: "If these are [fill in your favorite character's name] fans, god help [your favorite character's name] fictional soul."
Making Fiends is awesome, so big love goes out
hjcallipygian and szandara for pointing me to 14 Flash Episodes of Wicked Pissah Awesomeness.Making fiends, making fiends, Vendetta's always making fiends, while Charlotte makes friends...
Heeeeee! I wanna be Vendetta, complete with Russian accent.
I won't get started on "The Vegetable Song."
In which I bring my brother over to the Dark Side...
Had a good Thanksgiving in the form of Mom's homecooked meal. (What? Me? Cook?)
Got my brother
drmercurious to sell his soul to LJ (although some of his friends are already on board). His first entry? And God said, "Let There Be Strangeness," And LO, there were fundamentalist Christians.Unh-hunh.
And you thought I was trouble. Dude, he makes me look normal by comparison.
In which Mom and Dad buy my combined Birthday/Holiday present and I cheer...
Yes, yes. Day after Thanksgiving. Mass consumerism. Must avoid.
However, I need new clothes for work and Kohls was having massive pre-noon clothing sales. Mom and Dad combined my Birthday and Holiday presents and took me on a little spree.
Then I hit DSW where I got me two pairs of spiffy shoes to go with the clothes.
In which I plead for people to be nice to retail employees this year...
Then, thanks to a generous financial contribution (another combined Birthday/Holiday present) from my Aunt and her Sweetie, I bought a Rio Forge MP3 Flashplayer that I've been salivating over now for the past six months.
I did run into a little Best Buy annoyance when the people in the wireless department were shooting the shit and refused to answer my questions (I hadn't yet made up my mind to buy it). Instead, they said I should talk to someone lower on the sales floor totem pole. First I asked a person in a blue shirt who was nice and polite, but he explained that he did stock and didn't know anything about MP3 players. He pointed the wireless department people and said I should ask them.
Annoyed, I stomped over to the department next door and said, "Look, I just have two questions about the MP3 players, can anyone here help me since I'm being sent all over the store?" One of the people there was more than willing to help and answered my questions about the Rios. I got his name and made sure to grab a manager on the way out the door and sang this guy's praises to high heaven. I threw in the catch-phrase: "If he didn't take the time to talk to me, you would have lost a sale."
I also made sure to sing the praises of the stock room guy who was polite, told the truth about not knowing the products, and for correctly pointing out the people who should have helped me, but refused to even answer a single question.
Think it was mean?
I'm working Borders tomorrow, so I'll be on the other side. I worked Borders for three years. And no, it is not in the least bit unfair.
When a customer sings your praises to the floor manager, it actually counts for a lot. Some retail stores during this busy time of year will even give a gift cetificate for merchandise or a small cash bonus to the praised employee(s) when a customer goes out of their way to say something nice.
Managers get a lot of bitchy complaints (more than half of which are unfounded) during Christmas shopping season, so they're thrilled when a customer bothers to take the time to say that the floor sales people did a great job and it will actually benefit said retail employee(s).
When you work as a minimum wage slave like I have, those "little" incentives mean a hell of a lot, especially if you're worried about how you're going to afford holiday presents this year.
So, ummm, not to get preachy or anything, but if a retail employee goes out of his or her way to help you out, especially when things are crazy in the store, go out of your way to find a manager and tell them that the retail employee did a good job.
Please.
Do it for me, the person who'll be pulling a couple of holiday shifts at Borders.
In which I ask the age-old question: Why do some people insist on being *&(#!^^#! negative?
It all starts with a reasonable question on a certain wanktastic, character-centric, BtVS fic list: "What is the status of the Scoobs with New Council?" I can only assume the person asking wanted to know for fic reasons.
So, a few of us answer based on what little we know, thanks to S5 AtS. Nothing earth shattering. Just a list of bare-bone facts, along with a certain amount of fanwank (which we all clearly marked as fanwanks where applicable).
Cue entry of the wank brigade! Most notably the amazing negative nellies who refuse to see anything in a positive light.
I roll my eyes and pretty much stop reading half-way through the first day. (Those wankers! They move sooooooo fast!) The thing is, I have a real life. I was on deadline for a project that required me to focus on the wonderful world of cardiovascular health. Writing about cardiovascular health wins since I actually get paid for that.
Plus, I'm in the middle of writing a fic that I enjoy writing. People reviewing are willing to politely state what they like, don't like, and point out typos. Wank is kept to a minimum. Since writing for LJ is a hell of a lot more pleasant than getting even remotely involved in wank, I don't bother to check where it's going off hours.
So, I come back today and start clicking through this certain wanktastic list while trying to construct the next chapter (mostly because I needed a brain-break and hadn't checked in for a few days).
And lo! The "debate" (and I use the term loosely) has now descended into wankery. And name calling. I, it appears, have a "victim complex." Other people are dense. Or stupid. Or whatever the fuck they're supposed to be.
Let's not get into the character bashing now already in progress. No. Really. Let's not.
I'm not even getting involved. I posted twice (answers the first time, refutation of someone else's negative take the second) and I really have nothing more to say.
Can someone please tell me why this list is so amazingly wanktastic? Can someone tell me why there seems to be this incredible inability to agree to disagree? Why is it that just about every damned debate literally descends into a contest where you want to ask the combatants, "Let's all just whip our dicks out and see who's is bigger?"
And it's only gotten worse in recent months.
My own brother, who is highly amused by wank in all its forms, says he can't even look at this list without his eyeballs bleeding. My fave criticism while we were setting up his LJ: "What is the deal with all the anime crossovers? No. Wait. What's the deal with all the crossovers with bad anime?"
Since my brother was watching anime before it was "cool" and in the original Japanese (read: before you could get anything more than bootlegged copies of anime that had been converted from PAL to NTSC VHS), when he says something is bad anime or that some of the crossovers with the chosen anime make no sense whatsoever to him, I'm going to take him at his word.
I think, in his phrase, he called this list a wanktastic, crossover hell. Heh. That's about spot-on. He's about ready to write a fic that'll cause people's heads on the list to explode, which, on further reflection, would be kind of awesome if he did.
Not that I'm encouraging him or anything.
In all honesty, I can understand why there are authors who've walked away from the list, will not publicize their LJ locations, and have started refusing to post their fic there.
It's frustrating as hell. I've all but stopped reading (the "New Council" question was the first message I had even read since I stopped writing Living History) and I'm seriously considering walking away, even though the list has a positively huge membership and potential readership for the fanfic I write.
Truthfully, I'm not sure it's worth the aggravation. Between the unbelievably high signal-to-noise ratio, the monthly explosions of nasty wank, a lot of stories that are simply crap, and the inability to even find the stories I want to follow among the posts, I'm ready to throw in the towel.
Why am I still there? Why?
Oh. Wait. Because the sane wing of this list needs everyone they can get. Still, I'm questioning whether I want to continue on in the Fellowship of the Few, the Proud, and the Brave.
The tinfoil quotient. It burnses. The sad thing is, all BtVS characters seem to have this tinfoil hat brigade (which is far less pronounced for AtS). Even more sad, almost all fangroups seen to be defined by the extremes. But I'm sick of being lumped in with the extremes that hang this group or being perceived as one of the extremists because I'm a member of this list.
I've said it once, I'll say it again: "If these are [fill in your favorite character's name] fans, god help [your favorite character's name] fictional soul."
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:::Ooh, wait-person! I'll have what she's having.:::
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And joy over new clothes.
And squeeing over the Rio.
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I'm not sure what their deal is. Maybe it's an attention-seeking thing or a boredom thing. I don't know, and I don't get it.
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We all do the wank dance.
Seriously though, there's a difference between debating points or talking about your fav show and the level of pure nastiness I've seen on this list.
On the one hand, I want to stay because, hey, potential audience.
On the other, I want to quietly leave.
But a part of me wants to pull a Cartman and say, "Screw you guys and here's why..." Doing that, though, would make me really wanky.
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Personally, I just ignore the wank unless I'm really bored, and I never respond to it. Not that I respond to much directly on the list, to be honest. It's really not a good place to post thoughtful feedback, and I don't do thoughtless feedback.
Much, anyway.
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Dude. I look at S1-4, and even S5, and I just cut those four scoobies slack. Positive spine -- they're goin to take sabbaticals, and they're going to come back relatively recharged...
I don't know exactly who my "favorite" character is -- whenever I watch shows, I tend to view them in terms of as though my parents happened to live in that town as extras rather than identifying with one character or another. Though in this case, I probably identify first with Buffy...
But I'm, not an apologist for her character either. So as a result, I get pissy with each group of tinhats. Though there are some that certainly bug me more than others.
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I make you look NORMAL????
NOO!!!!
begs and pleads with Liz not to go
I can't take it if you're not there to keep me sane, and I don't get the LJ audience like you do... I *need* those reviews... you know, for my addiction?
I'll... I'll do anything! I'll stop work on all other fics, and work on the next Coffee installment! It's a cross with SG-1... shit, that's pretty wanky... I'll do the one that crosses with Saved! I'll... uh... shit, I have nothing else to offer...
PLEASE DON'T ABANDON ME!!!
deep breaths... deep breaths... whimper...
Re: NOO!!!!
Review Mr. Snow's posts to the list. Promptly.
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There are other forms of torture that hurt less you know. I heard Angelus had this thing with a buzz-saw.....
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Seriously, there were times when I would read those emails from the group and tear my hair out over the inaneness (is that actually a word?) of what every single 'debate' would descend into.
I'm not leaving the group because, as you say, potential audience; I am however blanking it for now.
On another topic - yay for recognition of retail staff! I worked in a not especially fashionable clothing store in Glasgow for five years and by the end was a customer service supervisor. There's nothing more soul destroying than going out of your way to really help someone and for them to just blank you, no thanks, no smile, no recognition that you're a human being. On the other hand, they're damn quick to complain...
Retail staff work really hard for not much pay and they get crapped on from a great height most days. Not as bad as waiting staff but don't get me started on that... *grin*
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And I actually look forward to opening my email box now...
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Teaching pays better, but it's a lot harder.
And I don't take any email from the lists - never have. It's so much easier to visit on the web and ignore the sludge and scum that way.
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I've got a sister like that. Anybody who thinks I'm strange, doesn't think so after meeting her.
Fandom is a strange thing, indeed. I don't think there is a single character on the show that I favour to *that* extent.
In which I badly use a bad metaphor
(Anonymous) 2004-11-27 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)(Okay, I've mangled that metaphor as far as it well go.)
--skippcomet
A theory
(Anonymous) 2004-11-27 06:16 pm (UTC)(link)So extremist A posts something. Extremist Z, at the other end of the spectrum (whatever spectrum it happens to be) feels the need to rebut that message, so he posts a reply. Mr. A then must refute the rebuttal, and . . . it’s hammer and tongs time.
If you want my advice (which may well be worth exactly what you’re paying for it) don’t stay where you’re not comfortable. As for your potential audience, two points to consider:
1) I myself stopped lurking at the group in question months ago, but I’m still counted as a group member because I never officially left the group (i.e. clicked on the “Leave Group” link). I suspect I’m far from the only one in this situation, and if I’m right, the number of people reading your story posts there may actually be well below the “official” membership count.
2) However large the potential audience there may be, is it really the kind of audience you’re looking for? Even if the readers aren’t . . . warped . . . when they join up, prolonged exposure probably may well have a deleterious effect on their mental processes.
Consider me. While I’m reading your post, I start obsessing on your use of the term signal-to-noise ratio.
Now, you used it the way, in my experience, everybody uses it – i.e. a high signal to noise ratio means the “real” content is being drowned out.
But isn’t that backwards? Isn’t the meaningful content the signal and the “static” the noise?
Mathematically if I’m talking about a ratio S:N and N is increased, the ratio is reduced.
But that doesn’t seem to apply when anybody is talking signal-to-noise ratio.
Apparently when we say signal-to-noise ratio, what we actually mean is noise-to-signal ratio. Damn, that must be confusing when people come across the term for the first time.
Then again, maybe my obsessing about this, and other things like it, may have nothing to do with the time I spent lurking at the list in question. I was a little strange before I ever found the place (more than a little, according to some sources).
-WyseQuack(WyseQuack@shaw.ca)
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And as for the list wank/stuff, I've noticed that LJ in general seems to act as a filtering mechanism - most people smart enough to get an account are smart enough to agree or disagree politely, and have serious reasons behind their quibbles.
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