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John Adams is My Homeboy...
So, I started watching John Adams after hearing all you guys twitter on about it earlier this year as a follow up to my The West Wing-o-thon (courtesy of ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
kurukami lending me his set).
[O! WAIT! Abigail Adams = Abigail Bartlett. I C WAT U DID THERE SORKIN!]
So, with the first two episodes watched — one pass straight through and one pass with the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature, aka, Pop-Up History Lesson — I just want to say:
I am enjoying it quite a bit. My favorite bits? When John Adams keeps getting all Unitarian Jihad in the Continental Congress. Yeah, John was seriously Brother Neutron Bomb of Reasoned Debate in those scenes.
(Please note: That crazy Unitarian John Adams was of the opinion that the U.S. was NOT a Christian nation, an opinion he shared with that even crazier Unitarian-lovin' Episcopalian Thomas Jefferson, who thought that the predominant religion in the U.S. would eventually become — ha, ha! — Unitarianism.)
For the most part, history isn't getting mangled too badly, although there were a few important points that did get glossed over in the presentation itself, but were corrected in the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature. The one thing I was surprised that they did get right and didn't shy away from too much was that The Sons of Liberty favored the thuggish side of the equation.
The other thing that was properly captured in the miniseries — one that I think most people today don't get — is that a unified "country" with 13 "states" under the umbrella was not something that was even considered in the early days. The Colonies were seen as separate countries that eventually banned together for a specific cause (in this case, Independence). So when you read "these United States of America" in the Declaration of Independence, the concept behind that phrase is utterly alien to anyone living in today's United States of America.
What Jefferson was actually saying: "These separate States (formerly Colonies) are united for this one purpose — to throw you out."
I thought this disconnect between the Revolutionary-era and modern-era concept of the "United States of America" was nicely captured in some of the dialog between the various representatives in the Constitutional Convention. When Ben Franklin reminds John Adams that he is a guest in Pennsylvania, he's reminding John Adams that he is (by Colonial standards) a visitor to a foreign country named Pennsylvania. When Jefferson asks Adams if he's eager to return to "your country," Jefferson means "your country, Massachusetts."
It's also interesting that in the second episode, whenever Adams refers to any kind of post-Independence world, he talks about a Confederacy of independent nations, the nations in question being the 13 states/colonies. (It was an idea that ultimately didn't turn out well, hence the U.S. Constitution and a stronger Federal government as a replacement. The mistake was again repeated by the South during the Civil War, which played a role in the Confederacy's defeat when the war began to go poorly for them.)
The fact is, the people who signed the Declaration of Independence would've been shocked down to their toes if someone from 21st Century America Dr. Who'd their way into the meeting and explained the modern concept of the "United States of America."
I really thought was a nice touch, but I also kind of wonder how many people watching the mini-series completely missed the importance of it.
There were some important bits that were glossed over and corrected in the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature: the Boston Tea Party happened because the British cut the price of tea, which meant that privateers like John Hancock could no longer make money smuggling non-East India Company tea into Boston and charging outrageous sums for it.
I have to admit that the miniseries didn't start out all that promising. The opening scenes of John Adams riding into Boston in the middle of a snow storm had me LOL'ing a bit, mostly because of the mountains in the background. Unless he was able to see the lights of Boston from The Berkshires along the New York border (which you most definitely cannot), t'aint no way that John was traveling through the foothills of some big-ass mountains as he rode into Boston. The closest hills we've got is the Blue Hills Reservation immediately to the south, which has a lovely view of Boston. But, I promise you, they're big-ass hills, not big-ass mountains.
The other thing that makes me LOL is that, according to John Adams anyway, New England is constantly blanketed in snow. Or mud. Your pick. If you were to judge New England weather by the HBO miniseries, you'd think Boston had been transported to the same latitude as Juneau.
Okay, okay. I cop to having a mud season in New England. We just call it March and April. But, hand to God, it's not all the months in between having massive amounts of snow dumped on our heads. And no, winter sure as hell does not start in October (when the Boston Massacre Trials actually happened). So you can safely assume we don't have massive blizzards in October, either. *sheesh*
Other distracting hiccups: John Adams seems to suffer from two other annoying things: 1) The amazing telescoping timeline; and 2) "Small state" syndrome.
Now, the amazing telescoping timeline is understandable, in large part because John Adams is historical entertainment as opposed to a documentary, so you've got to go in with the expectation that hardcore historical fact is going to get a bit wobbly at points. What was honestly needed was an additional episode between Episode 1 and 2 to really get a feel for just how long the Massachusetts colony caused all kinds of trouble for not just the British, but some of the other colonies.
While the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature on the DVDs did cover this somewhat, if you had no idea that the "Massachusetts Problem" was one that went back to the late 1600s — that's when the first open rebellion for independence happened — let alone that latest spasm of pre-Revolutionary civil unrest depicted in John Adams started in the 1760s, the open hostility of the other Colonies to the Massachusetts delegation in Philadelphia might seem a bit over the top.
Because, seriously, Massachusetts was the King of Causing Trouble for Everyone, so for Fuck's Sake, Sit Down and SHUT UP Before the Full Might of the British Empire Comes Down on Our Asses. And That Goes for You, Too, Other New England Colonies. Stop Backing Your Crazy Buddy.
Which...only goes to show how some things never, ever change.
More annoying was the "small state" syndrome. John Adams rode from Braintree (now present-day Quincy — pronounced by locals as Quinzee) to Concord in a couple of hours?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
That's a 33-mile one-way ride, Tonto. And shockingly enough, most of the roads that would get you from point A to point B already existed back in 1775. So unless John borrowed a TARDIS and stole a car, no way was he getting there and back in one day.
Yet, the thing that probably struck most people as unlikely — being able to watch Boston across the Harbor from Braintree/Quincy is actually true. And still is true to this day. Although the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature seemed to indicate that this was no longer true. Ummm, I promise you. It still is true. I know that half of Boston is built on landfill, but all that did was make Boston jut out into the Harbor even more. So, yeah...
They also got the Old Statehouse exactly right (Nice job set builders!), which is a good thing because the building still exists and people would kind of howl if that was wrong. There's one sour note here: The Boston waterfront as depicted in the miniseries is actually too far from the Old Statehouse. Back in the day, it would've been only a few blocks away, where the present-day Quincy Market (pronounced by locals as Quinsee) is located. Don't let the solid ground around those long buildings fool you. That's all landfill. Back in the 1700s, those were docks. Anyway, going by the distance between the statehouse and the "shoreline" in the miniseries, it looked like the editing monkeys took the present-day Boston shoreline and superimposed some docs on it, which — NO! Bad editing monkeys!
There were some things that did make me squeeful, though. Mostly tiny things that they did get right, like that Crispus Attucks was one of the first, if not the first person killed in the American Revolution — assuming that you date the "first shot fired" from the Boston Massacre and not Lexington and Concord. Which side you come down on for this question depends on when you think the shit really started to hit the fan in Massachusetts. I come down on the side of the Boston Massacre people, myself.
Okay, sure, all we had was a quick shot of Crispus (he was identified in the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature), but at least he hadn't been white-washed (pun intended) out of the story.
Also making me squeeful, they seemed to have captured the character of John and Abigail correctly.
John really was a bit of an annoying hot-head who didn't let go when he thought he was right. And, yeah, he was an elitist snob that wasn't all that hot about the common man (or "mob" as he not-so-affectionately thought of them) getting their grubby paws on the levers of power. Let's just say that the modern U.S. Presidential campaign with the thin veneer of the Electoral College standing in the way of citizens directly electing the president would give him a fucking heart-attack.
And, yes, his marriage to Abigail really was one of equals to the point that it wouldn't look out of place in a 21st Century context. Although in a 21st Century context, ol' Abby probably would've had a JD of her own and she and John would've been the Ultimate Civil Rights Crusading Power Couple.
What? Don't look at me like that.
In all seriousness, though. Abigail was world-famous in my various history classes. She was the very distillation of Awesome. And John was Awesome because he knew she was Awesome, too. In many ways, she was one of the first American Feminists.
And she was right about both women suffrage and slavery. Really, she needs a whole lot more credit for that. She told John, and told John, and told John, "Look, deal with this crap now, or we're gonna be dealing with it later and it's going to be a whole lot worse. Seriously."
The woman was a visionary, really.
Soooo, anyway. That's my initial impressions based on the first two episodes. More as the mood strikes.
kurukami lending me his set).[O! WAIT! Abigail Adams = Abigail Bartlett. I C WAT U DID THERE SORKIN!]
So, with the first two episodes watched — one pass straight through and one pass with the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature, aka, Pop-Up History Lesson — I just want to say:
I am enjoying it quite a bit. My favorite bits? When John Adams keeps getting all Unitarian Jihad in the Continental Congress. Yeah, John was seriously Brother Neutron Bomb of Reasoned Debate in those scenes.
(Please note: That crazy Unitarian John Adams was of the opinion that the U.S. was NOT a Christian nation, an opinion he shared with that even crazier Unitarian-lovin' Episcopalian Thomas Jefferson, who thought that the predominant religion in the U.S. would eventually become — ha, ha! — Unitarianism.)
For the most part, history isn't getting mangled too badly, although there were a few important points that did get glossed over in the presentation itself, but were corrected in the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature. The one thing I was surprised that they did get right and didn't shy away from too much was that The Sons of Liberty favored the thuggish side of the equation.
The other thing that was properly captured in the miniseries — one that I think most people today don't get — is that a unified "country" with 13 "states" under the umbrella was not something that was even considered in the early days. The Colonies were seen as separate countries that eventually banned together for a specific cause (in this case, Independence). So when you read "these United States of America" in the Declaration of Independence, the concept behind that phrase is utterly alien to anyone living in today's United States of America.
What Jefferson was actually saying: "These separate States (formerly Colonies) are united for this one purpose — to throw you out."
I thought this disconnect between the Revolutionary-era and modern-era concept of the "United States of America" was nicely captured in some of the dialog between the various representatives in the Constitutional Convention. When Ben Franklin reminds John Adams that he is a guest in Pennsylvania, he's reminding John Adams that he is (by Colonial standards) a visitor to a foreign country named Pennsylvania. When Jefferson asks Adams if he's eager to return to "your country," Jefferson means "your country, Massachusetts."
It's also interesting that in the second episode, whenever Adams refers to any kind of post-Independence world, he talks about a Confederacy of independent nations, the nations in question being the 13 states/colonies. (It was an idea that ultimately didn't turn out well, hence the U.S. Constitution and a stronger Federal government as a replacement. The mistake was again repeated by the South during the Civil War, which played a role in the Confederacy's defeat when the war began to go poorly for them.)
The fact is, the people who signed the Declaration of Independence would've been shocked down to their toes if someone from 21st Century America Dr. Who'd their way into the meeting and explained the modern concept of the "United States of America."
I really thought was a nice touch, but I also kind of wonder how many people watching the mini-series completely missed the importance of it.
There were some important bits that were glossed over and corrected in the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature: the Boston Tea Party happened because the British cut the price of tea, which meant that privateers like John Hancock could no longer make money smuggling non-East India Company tea into Boston and charging outrageous sums for it.
I have to admit that the miniseries didn't start out all that promising. The opening scenes of John Adams riding into Boston in the middle of a snow storm had me LOL'ing a bit, mostly because of the mountains in the background. Unless he was able to see the lights of Boston from The Berkshires along the New York border (which you most definitely cannot), t'aint no way that John was traveling through the foothills of some big-ass mountains as he rode into Boston. The closest hills we've got is the Blue Hills Reservation immediately to the south, which has a lovely view of Boston. But, I promise you, they're big-ass hills, not big-ass mountains.
The other thing that makes me LOL is that, according to John Adams anyway, New England is constantly blanketed in snow. Or mud. Your pick. If you were to judge New England weather by the HBO miniseries, you'd think Boston had been transported to the same latitude as Juneau.
Okay, okay. I cop to having a mud season in New England. We just call it March and April. But, hand to God, it's not all the months in between having massive amounts of snow dumped on our heads. And no, winter sure as hell does not start in October (when the Boston Massacre Trials actually happened). So you can safely assume we don't have massive blizzards in October, either. *sheesh*
Other distracting hiccups: John Adams seems to suffer from two other annoying things: 1) The amazing telescoping timeline; and 2) "Small state" syndrome.
Now, the amazing telescoping timeline is understandable, in large part because John Adams is historical entertainment as opposed to a documentary, so you've got to go in with the expectation that hardcore historical fact is going to get a bit wobbly at points. What was honestly needed was an additional episode between Episode 1 and 2 to really get a feel for just how long the Massachusetts colony caused all kinds of trouble for not just the British, but some of the other colonies.
While the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature on the DVDs did cover this somewhat, if you had no idea that the "Massachusetts Problem" was one that went back to the late 1600s — that's when the first open rebellion for independence happened — let alone that latest spasm of pre-Revolutionary civil unrest depicted in John Adams started in the 1760s, the open hostility of the other Colonies to the Massachusetts delegation in Philadelphia might seem a bit over the top.
Because, seriously, Massachusetts was the King of Causing Trouble for Everyone, so for Fuck's Sake, Sit Down and SHUT UP Before the Full Might of the British Empire Comes Down on Our Asses. And That Goes for You, Too, Other New England Colonies. Stop Backing Your Crazy Buddy.
Which...only goes to show how some things never, ever change.
More annoying was the "small state" syndrome. John Adams rode from Braintree (now present-day Quincy — pronounced by locals as Quinzee) to Concord in a couple of hours?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
That's a 33-mile one-way ride, Tonto. And shockingly enough, most of the roads that would get you from point A to point B already existed back in 1775. So unless John borrowed a TARDIS and stole a car, no way was he getting there and back in one day.
Yet, the thing that probably struck most people as unlikely — being able to watch Boston across the Harbor from Braintree/Quincy is actually true. And still is true to this day. Although the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature seemed to indicate that this was no longer true. Ummm, I promise you. It still is true. I know that half of Boston is built on landfill, but all that did was make Boston jut out into the Harbor even more. So, yeah...
They also got the Old Statehouse exactly right (Nice job set builders!), which is a good thing because the building still exists and people would kind of howl if that was wrong. There's one sour note here: The Boston waterfront as depicted in the miniseries is actually too far from the Old Statehouse. Back in the day, it would've been only a few blocks away, where the present-day Quincy Market (pronounced by locals as Quinsee) is located. Don't let the solid ground around those long buildings fool you. That's all landfill. Back in the 1700s, those were docks. Anyway, going by the distance between the statehouse and the "shoreline" in the miniseries, it looked like the editing monkeys took the present-day Boston shoreline and superimposed some docs on it, which — NO! Bad editing monkeys!
There were some things that did make me squeeful, though. Mostly tiny things that they did get right, like that Crispus Attucks was one of the first, if not the first person killed in the American Revolution — assuming that you date the "first shot fired" from the Boston Massacre and not Lexington and Concord. Which side you come down on for this question depends on when you think the shit really started to hit the fan in Massachusetts. I come down on the side of the Boston Massacre people, myself.
Okay, sure, all we had was a quick shot of Crispus (he was identified in the "Facts are Inconvenient Things" feature), but at least he hadn't been white-washed (pun intended) out of the story.
Also making me squeeful, they seemed to have captured the character of John and Abigail correctly.
John really was a bit of an annoying hot-head who didn't let go when he thought he was right. And, yeah, he was an elitist snob that wasn't all that hot about the common man (or "mob" as he not-so-affectionately thought of them) getting their grubby paws on the levers of power. Let's just say that the modern U.S. Presidential campaign with the thin veneer of the Electoral College standing in the way of citizens directly electing the president would give him a fucking heart-attack.
And, yes, his marriage to Abigail really was one of equals to the point that it wouldn't look out of place in a 21st Century context. Although in a 21st Century context, ol' Abby probably would've had a JD of her own and she and John would've been the Ultimate Civil Rights Crusading Power Couple.
What? Don't look at me like that.
In all seriousness, though. Abigail was world-famous in my various history classes. She was the very distillation of Awesome. And John was Awesome because he knew she was Awesome, too. In many ways, she was one of the first American Feminists.
And she was right about both women suffrage and slavery. Really, she needs a whole lot more credit for that. She told John, and told John, and told John, "Look, deal with this crap now, or we're gonna be dealing with it later and it's going to be a whole lot worse. Seriously."
The woman was a visionary, really.
Soooo, anyway. That's my initial impressions based on the first two episodes. More as the mood strikes.
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Really, this is why locals are bad tour guides to the historical monuments. Visitors show up with one idea of Revolutionary War history, one which is supported by some of the vids on the Freedom Trail. And then the locals go all Mystery Science Theater 3000 on the whole deal.
Heee! In all serious, the real history of the Revolutionary War is a whole lot more interesting (and downright weird). When you get right down to it, the Colonies ultimately declared independence because they wanted to have representation in Parliament, i.e., they wanted to be part of the United Kingdom, not independent. Then Parliament/the King bungled the hell out of that request.
Which, y'know, is like the ultimate irony when you think about it. Heee!
I love history.
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http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Crossings-Britain-American-Revolution/dp/006053916X
Depressing read, particularly when he talks about John and Henry Laurens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Laurens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Laurens
However, my favorite part of history when it comes to the American Revolution is the Battle of Kings Mountain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kings_Mountain
The battle literally happened because the British Officer in charge sent a letter to American Militia officers in what is now East Tennessee and Kentucky. The letter was threatening and insulting for the purpose of scaring them into supporting the British Crown It actually had the opposite effect. The Americans were so enraged that they actually made a five day march across the Blue Ridge Mountains, at least one source said they marched through snow, to get at the Loyalist forces.
The American Rebels caught up with them at Kings Mountain and despite being outnumbered and facing better trained troops completely defeated the Loyalists.
I actually use the battle when I encounter a newcomer to the region as to why it is a bad idea to enrage a well armed hillbilly.
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And, of course, the Adams house still exists.
I was also happy to see that the mini-series got the ambiguity of Bunker Hill correct. The Massachusetts Militia ultimately lost Bunker Hill in real battle terms, but they also scared the crap out of the British troops because it was a Hamburger Hill-type victory.
You can tell this is a favorite subject.
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The skimpy "Facts" was a big disappointment for us. Before we viewed "John Adams, we watched the HBO mini-series "Rome", and that DVD set had some wonderful commentaries on it by the historian who advised the makers of the series. Why couldn't this set have something similar? We loved listening to those commentaries on "Rome" as they actually had a lot more historical info than the pop-ups ("Rome" had pop-ups too). HBO should have known that a series on John Adams would have had viewers thirsting for LOTS of history, possibly even more than "Rome."
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My family got together to watch many of the episodes as they aired. We had to pause and rewind it so many times because of loud debates, discussions and laptop fact checking of random and inconsequential things. - How long it would take to get from Quincy to Lexington by horse? Would you take 128 or cut through Boston on 93? Did 128 and 93 exist back then? Did traffic on 93 suck even way back then? Where could they have been standing to get the exact view of Boston from the south shore as shown?
It was fun to visit forums like TWOP (and another site I can't find right now) right after it aired to read posts by other locals adding their own 2 cents.
I found this site helpful for fact checking.
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Honestly, whenever the Adams clan took to the hill to look across the Harbor, I think they actually had them Dorchester, going by the angle they were standing (looking directly across the harbor) and given the closeness of Boston to where they were standing (small state syndrome, again!)
Buuuuuut, we know that Abigail Adams and fam saw at least some portion of the Battle for Bunker Hill from Penn's Hill in Quincy. You can still see Boston from there, just not into the Charlestown area because a lot of landfill is now in the way (i.e., parts of Dorchester, most of South Boston, etc.). It's definitely not as close as they depicted in the mini, though.
And, heeee! On taking 128. 128 by horseback, John would still be trying to get there. I know a lot of the backroads existed though (definitely Route 9, aka Boston Post Road, and Route 2...and isn't the Southeast Expressway a cutoff for a lot of parallel roads that run directly into/through Boston? Either way, I stand by my assertion that no-way, no-how could anyone from Quincy be back and forth to Concord in one day, and still have time to gawk at the casualties along Battle Road.
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Another inaccuracy- the battleground in Lexington and Concord wouldn't have been wooded as shown in the series. Route 2 was all farmland back then with very few trees. We over-worked the land until it was unusable. I think the state stepped in and planted all the trees. I don't know the exact details, but someone on TWOP pointed it out but I can't find the post.
Was it John Adams or John Quincy Adams who pushed for the Big Dig? Either of them would be appalled to learn it took over 200 years to complete. (Sorry. Bad joke.) It's still so weird to drive on 93 and not have construction delays, find out that the exit you always take no longer exists, the lane you drove on the day before is no longer connected to anything, or have a detour take you to the North End when you were trying to get to Back Bay.
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...unfortunately, 83 people have requested it ahead of me.
Given the number of copies we have and the average length of possession by each patron, I'm thinking I might get to watch it around the 4th of July 2009. :-P
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Anyway, I came to talk about the weather.
Don't forget that the late 1700s was in the depths of the "Little Ice Age" - New York's harbour freezing solid (1780), Iceland blockaded by sea ice, Dickensian Londoners skating on the Thames, etc, etc. So snow in Boston in October doesn't seem that unlikely - presumably there are contemporary accounts or records...
Oh - just to check - are the two Quincy's you mention different places with differently pronounced names? (And which did John choose for his son? :-) )
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Also, loving that Netflix *has* it, and that it's *available* from them.. *cough* unlike some video stores.
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The Boston Tea Party was about price but its a bit more involved then you described. The Navigation Acts prohibited direct trade between British colonies. Tea from India had to be shipped to England. It was then taxed and reexported to the colonies. John Hancock smuggled tea from the Dutch and it was cheaper because of better routing and no taxes. The East India Company got permission to directly ship from Asia to Boston, making their tea cheaper then the smuggled tea. The British government was going on the strategy that you can't be a little bit pregnant. Once they accepted the taxes on this tea, the colonies couldn't oppose any import revenue taxes.
You are absolutely correct about the delegates to the Continental Congress being from different countries. It took the Revolution to change that. Alexander Hamilton was the only true Nationalist of the founding fathers. He was born in the West Indies and emigrated to America. For the rest, it's interesting to note that the Federalists were led by veterans of the Continental Army who suffered from the failures of the Confederation. The Anti-Federalists and Jefferson's Republicans were lead by people who had not fought in the war.
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Adams was hardly alone among the founding fathers who had that opinion of the common rabble.
I usually cut historical entertainment a bunch of slack. Real historical events don't usually come with great dramatic timing. :)
Happy Birthday!
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Happy birthday!
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