liz_marcs: Jeff and Annie in Trobed's bathroom during Remedial Chaos Theory (lovecraft_stop_inflicting_gullible_publi)
liz_marcs ([personal profile] liz_marcs) wrote2008-07-31 11:41 am

Another Nudge to keep Fighting: The Birth Control Uproar Goes Mainstream

Roughly 2 weeks ago, I went on a long rant about how any healthcare worker who conflated birth control and abortion should not only flunk medical school, but deserved to have their sorry ass fired from their job in the medical field.

This rant was in response to the proposed DHHS regulation that would allow medical professionals to refuse to do their job provided they've got the 'it's against my moral code!' excuse. To help these no-goodnick busy-bodies to hold on to their jobs, the regulation re-defines abortion in such a way that birth control (hormonal birth control, emergency contraception, and IUDs) falls under the definition.

If you believe that birth control is an abortifacient, you are wrong. You are wrong on a medical level. You are wrong on a scientific level. You are wrong on a factual level. You are wrong. Period. And you've got no business working in the medical field, or getting within a zillion miles of a patient, if you believe otherwise.

In fact, after 2 weeks of reading the hopes and dreams of the religious right in getting this regulation through DHHS, I now firmly believe you should have your ass fired if you start invoking "morality clauses." And you should be barred from ever working for any medical organization. Ever. In any capacity at all.

Fuck it. Religious freedom ends right at the point where you start hitting people in the nose, and I'm sick of getting my nose broken because someone's delicate sensibilities can't deal with the idea that not everyone marches to the same religious beat. Hell, they go batshit insane upon finding out there are people out there who don't want to march to the same religious beat. I've reached the point of believing that maybe these people need to be sent into the political corner and forced to sit there until they learn to be civilized human beings.(1)

And this regulation? This one right here? Is designed to be a massive punch in the nose for U.S. women. I mean, how else am I supposed to translate this quote?

Administration supporters say the left's concerns are overblown and very few women would have real difficulty getting birth control. Still, some on the religious right are hoping the regulation would create some obstacles.

If the draft regulation were to prompt some insurance companies to drop coverage for prescription birth control, "that would be fantastic," said Tom McClusky, a strategist with the conservative Family Research Council.


Note that the above quote comes from the the Wall Street Journal. The same Wall Street Journal that normally takes the right-wing's side. The article here and the quotes used in it makes it manifestly clear: the anti-choice movement was never about abortion — which, duh, I could've told you that back when I was in a Catholic High School. It was always all about and still is all about making sure women never had clear title to their uterus, and that includes everything from birth control to abortion.

And just so you know: the Family Research Council isn't a bunch of little cranks with a mimeograph machine in the backroom. They are a major, major player in Christian-identity right wing politics and have been fucking over women and gays for years when it comes to their antics.

This MSNBC/Washington Post article explains that it's more than just the right to control our uterus that's at stake:

"This is causing a lot of distress," said one NIH [National Institutes of Health] researcher who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions. "It's a redefinition of abortion that does not match any of the current medical definitions. It's ideologically based and not based on science and could interfere with the development of many new therapies to treat diseases."


That's right. 'Tain't just teh wimminz that are gonna be fucked if this becomes permanent reality. Teh menz are gonna be fucked, too. And so are teh childrunz. This is a clear-cut case of cutting off your nose despite your face.

The really insidious part about this regulation is that states (like my beloved People's Republic of Massachusetts) that have passed laws essentially saying: "Do your job, or lose your job, your 'morality' be damned, because this is healthcare, and only the patient's religious beliefs count here" are gonna find those laws gutted. Health care institutions ranging from the hospital network to potentially the physician practice will have to jump through paperwork hoops to prove they're "accommodating" someone's religious beliefs or risk losing any federal funding at all.

And here's the really insidious part of the regulation: It doesn't just apply to medical personnel. As The Wall Street Journal article notes:

The draft also extends the conscience objection to most staff members and volunteers working for health-care providers. So, for instance, an employer couldn't punish a clinic receptionist for refusing to make appointments for patients seeking birth-control pills.


That's right. It extends that protection to everyone that deals with patients, and makes it impossible for these "moralists" to be punished if they deliberately fuck over a patient because their conscience dictates that they should.

If this becomes reality (however briefly), the damage done to patients seeking medical care could be incalculable. And any and all trust female patients might have in their healthcare providers will be essentially erased, because now there isn't a single woman out there that would be able to say beyond a shadow of a doubt that everyone in her doctor's office had her best interest at heart.

The good news 28 senators are trying to stop it. Big props to Sen. Clinton for being the first out of the gate to raise a stink about this.

A bigger stink needs to be raised, and raised right now.

But more than that, a lesson needs to be imparted on the the Christianist/Dmonionist religious right. We need to make them eat this whether it becomes reality or not. That means reminding people, educating people, and showing people that these assholes do not have your best interests at heart, not on a spiritual level and certainly not on a physical level.

They're all about control. Controlling the country, and controlling you. Whether or not you believe what they believe is irrelevant. Just remember: They're never going to give up until they get that control.

I think it's high time we start punching back, don't you?



(1) Note of warning to everyone who comments:

Do not give me that no true Scottsman argument with respect to Christianity. Not today. Especially not today. Because, you know what? For 8 fucking years I've been hearing that argument, and I'm sick and tired of it. For all that, "they're not really Christians" defensiveness I hear, read, and see, there are damn few Christians of any stripe standing up to these guys and telling them to go to hell. If they're not "real Christians," maybe it's time you do something more than throw around the "no true Scottsman" argument, don't you think? In short, prove it to me. Because the talky-talk bullshit isn't working any more.

Yeah, I know the above paragraph is intolerant, but right now I'm so angry that I've had a revelation of the "I've reached the end of my rope" variety. There are blessed few Christians out there taking a stand. Talk2Action, Street Prophets, and the Slacktivist, and some members over a [livejournal.com profile] dark_christian off the top of my head are at least trying, but where the hell are the rest of you?
bellatemple: (BCJ - Cowboys and Indians)

[personal profile] bellatemple 2008-07-31 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, but Liz, you're forgetting several very important details, here. Firstly, of course, is that America is a Christian country. Yeah, sure, we have religious freedom as one of the major bases of our entire system of government as well as written into our constitution, but, hey, we don't need that old thing any more, right?

Also, the proper response to disliking something that America is doing is to leave. Because it's the easiest thing to do to just ex-pat and go to another country. Never mind all that effort we're putting in to tighten our borders against people trying to come in who are dissatisfied with -- or downright threatened by -- the way that their country is handling things. Other countries won't be doing that. Of course not. Also, you're an American. Everyone wants you! Oh, and don't worry about that whole thing where culturally we're probably the least prepared "first world" people in the world to attempt to thrive in another culture. We're American. Just go be American in another country where I don't have to listen to you disagree with how I want to be American. . . .

I do hope that the heavy sarcasm came through properly in all of that. *goes back to her corner*

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:33 pm (UTC)(link)
*writes all of that down*

Mind if I quote you chapter and verse next time someone asks my "Why do you hate America?" in a completely unironic way? And, yes, I have been asked that in a completely unironnic way. It boggles my mind.

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[identity profile] stephanierb.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:25 pm (UTC)(link)

Most political issues get my blood boiling, but this, this particular issue leaves me trembling with rage. I could never remain rational enough to have any kind of reasonable discussion with someone who subscribes to this, I would just lose my temper. That this is even being considered in the United States of America is frustrating, maddening and disgusting all at once.

And I don't know what's worse. The people who actually believe this and want to make this happen, or the folks who do nothing about it.

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Trembling, shaking, unreasonable rage doesn't even come close to the level I'm feeling right now. America's own little Wahhabists need to be fucked over and fucked-over hard, because, really, enough is enough letting them run rough-shod over the rest of us.

And if Obama gets the presidential nod, these assholes are only going to get worse. Dealing with them will be like dealing with the constant noise of howler monkeys.



[identity profile] desoto-hia873.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:29 pm (UTC)(link)
O_O

"Consciences," my ass. You're right--it's all about control.

Jim's ex claims, loudly, to be a fine, upstanding Christian and sent her kids to a private Christian school. And yet she left Jim when she had an affair with the man next door, accused Jim of sexually and physically abusing her to try and get custody of the kids (she later admitted to her daughter that the abuse was a lie), has had umpity-nine sleepover boyfriends since then when her young kids were at home, swears like a trucker, constantly runs people (including her children) down, applied for a job as a stripper a few years ago (I wonder what the Christian school execs would have thought about that?), and is the most thoroughly unpleasant person I've ever had the misfortune of meeting. And yet she still maintains her holier-than-thou attitude, considers herself the pillar of morality, and delights in nothing more than telling people how to run their lives. She has no conscience.

Grrr.

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I've lost count the number of marriages that were broken up because some third-party fundamentalist whack-job decided to practice conversion-by-cunt or conversion-by-cock.

What really makes it special is being told that "it's perfectly okay because it's for Jebesus." Besides, the abandoned spouse isn't "really a Christian" (read, "a fundamentalist, bible-literalist, evangelical Christian who believes it's all about grace and not at all about good works") therefore she or he is "fair game" for getting fucked over.

*snort*

No shit. I've lost count the number of marriages I've seen broken up because some hollier-than-thou roller decided to fuck around with a married woman or married man.

*steam comes out of my ears*

Okay, I am officially way too angry to make any sense right now.

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[identity profile] sunfell.livejournal.com - 2008-07-31 18:48 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] ladypeyton.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:35 pm (UTC)(link)
For all that, "they're not really Christians" defensiveness I hear, read, and see, there are damn few Christians of any stripe standing up to these guys and telling them to go to hell.

Word. Does this argument mean that the 23 Senators who refused to sign the letter aren't true Chirstians? In other words, Republicans aren't true Christians?

I am disgusted with this country and with religion in general.

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, when you've got such a large population all claiming that "this is real Christianity," and you've got another large population over here disagreeing, but doing shit all to stand up to that faction, it's high time to stop saying that shit.

In fact, it's high time to finally own those assholes, but make it clear that they are a completely different sect. This big ol' unified theory of Christianity (which is a completely modern construct) clearly isn't working any more.

I'm not saying that different sects of Christianity should start hacking each other to pieces like they did in the bad ol' days, but I'm thinking that trying to say that Christianity has any kind of unity should really, really go by the way side.

Just admit they are Christians already, state they are not the same kind of Christian you are, and then do something to oppose them if they try to push policies that you disagree with.

Verbally sending these guys to Canterbury clearly isn't working, esepcially since the American Wahhabists have no problems sending other Christians to Canterbury or steeple-jacking their Churches, or engaging in violent rhetoric against people who disagree with them.

[identity profile] butterflykiki.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
In fact, after 2 weeks of reading the hopes and dreams of the religious right in getting this regulation through DHHS, I now firmly believe you should have your ass fired if you start invoking "morality clauses." And you should be barred from ever working for any medical organization. Ever.

Dude, I did not ask you for your religious opinion. Exactly. You were not hired to do this. And any company that *doesn't* fire their asses is looking highly suspect to me. You want to picket the Safeway? Fine. Do it on your own time. You want to pass out pamphlets? Your choice. Do it 30' away from the door and keep it civil. You don't interfere with commerce or a person's health. You don't have the legal authority to do that.
Render unto Caesar, nitwit.

Yay for the Senators who know their constituency. Because, dude. Dude. Oy.

I just seriously, seriously don't get the logic of these people. I don't. Not the birth control = abortion part, but how the hell they think it's any of their business in the first place.

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:11 pm (UTC)(link)
See, I was willing to let them work somewhere else in the system where they wouldn't have to deal with reproductive health (say, pediatrics or geriatrics).

However, as pointed out in the materials I'm reading, this "protection" applies in ways you wouldn't even begin to contemplate unless someone pointed it out, i.e., like the administrative assistant deliberately refusing to make an appointment for a patient who wants to discuss birth control with her doctor.

That's the point where you go: "Fuck it. If you can't do the job, then you shouldn't work in the field. Period." The more I read, the more hardcore I'm getting about this, and I thought I was pretty hardcore before.

It doesn't help my state of mind that people have already been irreparably harmed or have died because of these "conscience clauses" (Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/17/174534/045/226/536744)

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[identity profile] illicit-grace.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Definite kudos to the senators who are putting up the fight. I wonder why this hasn't made a big splash in the news yet (read: newsweek, nightly news, cbs nightly news...)

Any idea how Obama and McCain will be acting on this issue (what would really piss me off is if Obama decided to do nothing so as to not open up a can of worms).

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Obama is one of the ones protesting the DHHS rule, according to several of the news articles. He's pledged to kill it, whether it's implemented of not, if he's elected.

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[identity profile] sylo-tode.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm actually surprised at your restraint in this post. :)
I couldn't help but read it with the outrage and anger jumping off the screen and wonder, "How can she be so rational?" [No, I really mean it. I'm not being sarcastic.]

If they acted according to what Christ taught instead of what the church dictates, the world would be a much better place.

It's like they have a Bizarro Bible because they do the complete opposite almost all the time! I want to tell these people, "Show me where Christ said this!" "Show me where Christ said to do that!"

I've long held that all of Christ's teachings (as well as every other faith's) can be boiled down to two words: Be Nice.

[identity profile] spiralleds.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd go one step further (a la Name that Tune) and say that Christ's teachings can be boiled down to one word: Love.

I do all that I can to get that message out, but, uff da, a lot of days it feels like I'm bailing out a boat with a thimble.

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[identity profile] skipp-of-ark.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
"Jesus Christ, deliver us from Your followers."

First its your bodies they want to control. Then they want to control how you live your life, and if you're not in lockstep with how they think your life should go, there must be something wrong with you. You're probably gay, because every right-thinking heterosexual person understands they're morally obigated to get married and start pumping out kids by the age of 25, and there's simply no good enough reason to still be single (or childless) when you're in your thirties./Sarcasm

(Oh, wait. They're equal-opportunity harrassers about marriage. That's progress, right?)

[identity profile] arkady.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Is there anything us non-Americans can do? It's pretty frustrating reading about all this stuff and not being able to do anything about it. (Though don't get me wrong; I'd far rather know than remain blissfully ignorant.)

[identity profile] lee-rowan.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 07:42 pm (UTC)(link)
If you're in a Christian church, ask the leaders of your own church what they're doing to counter the image that all Christians are dangerous nutbars. And if you're not, keep an eye on your own government, because these crazy bastards are everywhere, trying to create Armageddon. That is their goal--I wish I were joking.

Thanks for the good thoughts, at any rate!

[identity profile] sunfell.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 06:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Those cursed Talibangelicals make the damn original Taliban look almost civilized. Any more, when I hear someone tell me that they are 'Christian', I have to walk away, because I would probably say something hateful to them. Hell, they have no compunction about hating me- I'm the wrong gender, I think for myself, I control my body, and I think that most religions are a con game.

[identity profile] bloodredroses1.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I love reading your LJ even though part of the time it makes me want to scream, cry, rage and want to jump off of tall buildings because I just don't feel up to coping w/ the way our country is headed.

I haven't finished reading all the articles you referenced in this post but I would still like to ask if I may post a link to this post on my LJ. I believe some of my Flist would pass this on much better than I can.

Also any suggestions as to how to fight this stupidity? God knows Texas is screwed up enough that this is probably happening here.

Once again thank you so much for making me aware of more than my little corner of the world.

Morgan

[identity profile] liz-marcs.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)
All public LJ posts are always open for the linking and the quoting, but thank you for asking anyway. :-)

As for what you can do on a micro-level, find out if there are any local branches of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State or American Civil Liberties Union and sign up for legislative updates or for getting email alerts on various issues that come up on a state level. That way, you'll stay informed about your backyard, as well as pick and chose the causes you want to fight for.

Another thing is voting out politicians that support Dominionist/Christianist causes and supporting politicians that fall in line with your point of view. This tactic worked extremely well in Massachusetts, where people organized against incumbents who wanted to make same-sex marriage illegal and voted them out en masse. It's now to the point where same-sex marriages aren't even an issue at all, because the minute someone starts making noises about mixing religion and politics, people vote them out so fast it makes your head spin.

I'm pretty sure there might be some Texas political comms on LJ. So you could also look there for pointers about groups that fall in with your political POV.

[identity profile] lostlo.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 08:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Not only do I agree with everything you say, but I really relate to the little paragraphs at the end. I try to excuse or understand anything I don't agree with, because god knows I'm not perfect and do stupid shit... but lately I've felt like "I am excusing too much. Wrong is wrong, and I should be free to stand up for what I believe is right." I think I've reached the end of a couple ropes lately.

So basically, what I'm saying is, I feel you. Right on, sister.

[identity profile] lostlo.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
BTW, I am also linking from my LJ - I'm assuming permission from the above post. Thanks!

[identity profile] jgracio.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Is there anything preventing one of those cults that think the only medicine is prayer from denying any and all medical treatment to everyone?

I mean, if it's okay to deny women treatment cause the way they lead their life displeases you, well, why stop there?

Seems to me this should be one of those times when people should "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s", like someone once said.

Alas, I can't really do anything, I'm not American.

[identity profile] huzzlewhat.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
My first real-world contact with this kind of issue came when I tried to find a new Ob/Gyn when I moved to Milwaukee from Philadelphia. Went through the list of doctors on my health insurance plan, picked one close to home, called for an appointment. It wasn't until three stages past that initial call that the attending nurse told me that my brand-new shiny Ob/Gyn wouldn't prescribe birth control, if that was what I was there for.

"Huh," I said. "Is that because of religious reasons?"
"Yes. She's very devout."
"Okay, then. Please cancel my appointment."

They tried to convince me that she was a good doctor, really, and since I was just there for a regular check-up, it shouldn't be a problem, but I countered by saying that I really wasn't interested in finding out what else she might judge me about in the future. When they informed me that I'd have to pay for the appointment anyway because I hadn't cancelled more than 24 hours in advance, I told them that I certainly wouldn't, because I wouldn't have booked the appointment at all if they'd been up front about the fact that the doctor wouldn't actually give me the services I needed, and if they sent me a bill, I'd send it to a lawyer.

I never did get a bill.

I was a sheltered flower in liberal East Coast land, I tell you.


[identity profile] siliconivy.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 09:58 pm (UTC)(link)
wow, you never told me that. if that had happened to me, they probably would've seen the infamous, doesn't happen very often but when it does, DUCK, losing of my temper.

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[identity profile] curiouswombat.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 09:20 pm (UTC)(link)
[livejournal.com profile] bubble_blunder was posting on the same sugbject earlier, and mentioning something her mother had pointed out, as a nurse. I paraphrase or possibly extrapolate -

In the case of a Jehovah's Witness patient the patient's religious objection to receiving blood outweighs the clinician's religious belief that all life is sacrosant; the precedent is set that the patient's belief is the final decider. Therefore if the patient's belief is that family planning is right and proper this should, by legal precedent, overide the beliefs of the practitioner.

If the beliefs of the practitioner are more important in cases of contraception, then it follows that the laws on treatment for other things, such as the JW refusal to accept blood products, should be legally over-riden by the clinician's religious belief that it is wrong to allow any death that you can prevent.

If you see what I mean.

[identity profile] yudinsoha.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 09:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Don't forget reproductive rights go beyond abortion, too. There have been several cases of pregnant women who have been issued court orders, arrested, and literally tied down to a table and forced to have a C-section.

If you're interested in how broken OB/Gyn care is when you actually decide to have a child, try reading Born in the USA by Marsden Wagner.

[identity profile] kaura-nighthawk.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 10:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, man. It's been two years, almost three, now, since I turned eighteen, and it still gives me a small thrill when a ballot comes up concerning this sort of shenanigan, and I get to mark a big, fat "NO" on it.

[identity profile] lmzjewel.livejournal.com 2008-07-31 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
The thing that pisses me off about this is that I'm very anti-abortion but I'm very pro-birth control. I mean honestly, if the goal is to prevent abortion the best most safest way to do that is birth control. And your right. If they don't know how birth control works and that using birth control isn't even in the same ball park as abortion than they shouldn't be in the medical field. I mean I feel very strongly about abortion because I see the child as having it's own body and should have rights as well as the mom. But taking away a woman's access to birth control and sterilization that's just wrong and I can't stand for that either. And yet, these bozos make it hard for people like me who want to have intelligent sensible dialogue and get something past into law that can protect both the baby and the mom.

I can't even imagine anyone wanting to deny a woman who has been raped the date rape drug. I mean there is no child in the uterus. Your just trying to prevent an embryo, if there even is one in her reproductive tract, from attaching to the uterus and having a pregnancy. It's just a safeguard. It's not the same as having a fetus with a spinal chord and nerve endings, that can feel pain. I mean come on alot of times a person can conceive but the embryo never makes it all the way to actual implantation or gets absorbed instead of being viable and they don't even know it. So how is that any different than giving a woman whose been raped the date rape drug?

Furthermore, I don't even want to get into the pandora's Box of other areas in the medical field it could affect. Things like infertility treatment, cancer treatment...and Lord knows what all else.

And Yudinsoha was right about the c-section issue, I wanted to have a VBAC and wound up having a C-section for my subsequent pregnancies because my doctor and the hospital wouldn't let me do it.
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[identity profile] jennem.livejournal.com 2008-08-01 12:15 am (UTC)(link)
That's right. It extends that protection to everyone that deals with patients, and makes it impossible for these "moralists" to be punished if they deliberately fuck over a patient because their conscience dictates that they should.

Not only does it protect the health care worker to the detriment of the patient, but it also prohibits a health care organization from having "discriminatory hiring practices." Talk about fucking over the OB/GYNs.

No, dear OB/GYN. You can't discriminate against a person that would refuse to schedule a patient's appointment because said patient wanted birth control. If you didn't hire them because of this, you would face sanctions by the DHHS. I wonder what the fuck they're supposed to do instead. Hire yet ANOTHER staff member? Because, that'll be great for their bottom line. I mean, its not like we have a shortage of OB/GYN's in this country. Oh wait...

[bangs head against wall]

[identity profile] justhuman.livejournal.com 2008-08-01 03:18 am (UTC)(link)
I poked around and was well pleased that my NJ senators were among the 28 signers

Here's the letter with the signatories

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200807/072308g.html

[identity profile] artistshipper.livejournal.com 2008-08-01 01:24 pm (UTC)(link)
"Do not give me that no true Scottsman argument with respect to Christianity. Not today. Especially not today. Because, you know what? For 8 fucking years I've been hearing that argument, and I'm sick and tired of it. For all that, "they're not really Christians" defensiveness I hear, read, and see, there are damn few Christians of any stripe standing up to these guys and telling them to go to hell. If they're not "real Christians," maybe it's time you do something more than throw around the "no true Scottsman" argument, don't you think? In short, prove it to me. Because the talky-talk bullshit isn't working any more.

Yeah, I know the above paragraph is intolerant, but right now I'm so angry that I've had a revelation of the "I've reached the end of my rope" variety. There are blessed few Christians out there taking a stand. Talk2Action, Street Prophets, and the Slacktivist, and some members over a [info]dark_christian off the top of my head are at least trying, but where the hell are the rest of you?"

Actually, you're completely right in calling it a No-true Scottsman- and I say this as a Christian. It isn't just whackjobs like Phelps going along with this, it includes plenty of mainstreamers.

Why aren't Christians doing anything about it? For the same reason they didn't do anything about the riseof the NAZI's back in the 1930's (in both cases, some actually did/are do[ing] something, but that's beyond the point). The bad guys grabbed the moral high ground (within a certain context) first and dislodging them from it is a royal bitch and a half. Not many are brave enough to challenge the status quo of "moral authority" especially when the news is giving the uber-conservatives way more airtime, and adding to their illusion of great influence (which is less and less an illusion, thanks to the lack of opposition from the moderates). I'm not making an excuse, the lack of conviction to fight the war for moral standards on the part of moderate Christians is a massive and in every way reproachable failing. It's also nothing new, and from a psychological perspective, about what you'd expect. (Remember the Milligram Experiment? Falwell, Robertson, and CO. are playing the guys in the lab coats, and most people are going along with the program- it takes a lot to stand against the voice of established-but-wrong authority)

I would also like to point out that your anger is in large part misplaced. 90% of people (Christian or otherwise) probably have only partial comprehension of what the issue actually is, and many may honestly believe that this is an anti-abortion bill rather than an anti-contraceptive one; because why would they know any better? You may care enough to dig deep and find out the details, but your average Joe (Christian or otherwise) isn't going to care enough to. He'll vote on the basis of his impressions and what he hears from various media- which is more likely to contain the biased presentations of the uber-conservatives that an in depth explanation- and why would he care enough to listen to such an explanation? Ignorance is much more the problem here than malice- and that's more the fault of our crappy news media than modChristian constituents who have no incentive to care much about the issue- though their complacency and inaction is as, I have noted, a serious failing.

So does that answer you question?

There rest of us modChristians are

a) Doing something about it somewhere you can't see (Tiny minority)

b) Lacking courage and moral conviction to make a stand against the uber-conservatives (Large minority) -And you can feel free to blame us for this, I really have no good excuse.

c) Either unaware, misinformed, or just not giving a crap about this (Majority)

[identity profile] mochi-tsuki.livejournal.com 2008-08-01 01:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm trying to decide who I love more at this moment: Hillary, for getting right back on her feet and continuing to fight for the things she's always fought for and believed in despite her huge disappointment, or you, for being you.

[identity profile] siliconivy.livejournal.com 2008-08-01 03:35 pm (UTC)(link)
you rock.

I read this first yesterday, immediately after you posted. i went back later in the day to read the resultant comments. later, when i was driving home from work, i found i couldn't stop thinking about it, and was getting more & more pissed off.

thanks for posting, and for all the links you provided.

[identity profile] pewter-wings.livejournal.com 2008-08-01 04:35 pm (UTC)(link)

http://www.pfli.org/

This is a good group to help you understand where these people are coming from. They do not believe anyone should access to any birth control, HBC to condoms.

As for Christians, I have met few that I liked. I went to a Christian school for three days. Those were the meanest girls I had ever known, the back stabbing was unreal and the school called social services on my mom saying 'We will do whatever it takes to take your child from you'. I am ADHD. Take a guess as to why they wanted me away from my mom.

What I don't understand most of all is this. If someone does not believe the same as you and is going to hell, doesn't that mean more room in heaven for you?
aryas_zehral: (Default)

[personal profile] aryas_zehral 2008-08-02 01:47 am (UTC)(link)
I've been reading quite a bit about this in the last couple of weeks while blog trawling and everytime I do I just feel furious and confused... but also, ultimately, powerless because I'm not American. I used to want to come to America because all the shows I watched were American and the stuff I'd heard made the place sound cool... but then I grew up and read more and realised that I have no desire to even visit. Stories like these just sure up my conviction.

Of course, I am now worried about some idiot over here wanting to follow the States since, you know, we seem to do that alot and not always seemingly in the most democratic of ways.

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