liz_marcs | Does this make me a Bad Fan?

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Does this make me a Bad Fan?

Confession #1:

I'm approximately 1 gazillion times more excited about Mama Mia! opening today than I am about The Dark Knight, despite the fact that I can see The Dark Knight at no less than 2 IMAX theaters within easy driving distance.

Confession #2:

It appears that I will buy anything David Simon does because, as it turns out, he's my favorite author (for television) ever. I own the book Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets, all 7 seasons plus television movie of Homicide: Life on the Street, the book The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood, the HBO series The Corner, and the first 4 seasons of The Wire (with Season 5 on order for immediate shipping when it's available next month).

I am counting down to when Generation Kill will be available on DVD (I don't get HBO) so I can get my hands on it.

In short, you know how people will buy anything Joss Whedon does (even when it's total crap) and call him a genius for it (even though it's a case of the emperor walking around completely starkers)?

This is apparently how I treat productions involving David Simon, Ed Burns, and partners.

How can I put this...long before I let any of David Simon's stuff out of my hands, I will sell both my Angel and Buffy box sets.

The hell with that. I will burn my Angel and Buffy box sets before I give up any of David Simon's stuff.

(Seriously, those of you who kept looking for meaning in the "numbered shirts" of Buffy Season 6 that actually didn't have any meaning beyond, "We found a bunch of these for cheap in thrift shops?" Try The Wire, which actually has twice the meaning and twice the mythic elements of any Angel and Buffy episode without requiring you to fanwank. Best of all? The Wire actually has continuity that puts most book series to shame. No. I'm not kidding.)

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Aye we're all terrified *g*. I couldn't move for people clucking about it. Though I did have to laugh about the Yellow Jacket / Browncoat thing.

This make me want to go to Comicon for all the drama! I hope there'll be a battle, and my money's on Dr. Steel's Toy Soldiers, all the way.

Evil science masterminds are not new, but come on, those two blue posters are almost identical.

The Whedonesque posters quickly went to "Dr. Steel is just trying to get free publicity from Joss Whedon's work."

Of course, the music's not the same, but the art work, and the "Ask Dr. Horrible" is amazingly similar to the "Ask Dr. Steel" portion of his blog.

Do you think they'll ever 'fess up? Will they at least point to it and say they liked it so well they decided to do something similar to it?

Nah. They'll just ignore it and count on the Whedonites to try to drown them out.

Oooooh, God. That's a really, really old wank that I dimly remember from my initial foray into online Buffy fandom.

I think I remember it because it was a truly WtF introduction.

Anyway, this started on "The Stakehouse," which once upon a time was THE Yahoo Group you joined if you wanted to discuss in-depth about episodes, foreshadowing, etc. You know...it was supposed to be a SRS DISCUSSION.

[In reality, it was a bunch of frippery and Spike worship, which was fine. However, if you were a fan of Angel or *shudder* Xander, you found your welcome less than welcome very quickly...]

Anyway, at some point during the early part Season 6, all of the characters started wearing these numbered T-shirts. Now, I remembered they had been a minor fashion trend something like the year before among the college hipster set, so I didn't think much about seeing them.

After two or three weeks of these numbered T-shirts showing up randomly on the characters, The Stakehouse explodes. Clearly there is Something Deep Going On Here. Whedon Has a Plan. The T-shirts are Important Foreshadowing. (Somehow, Xander's T-shirt numbers invariably meant that he was the one who was going to either go evil or be the Big Scooby Death in Season 6...funny how that works hunh?)

This speculation soon spreads out of The Stakehouse and hits the Bronze Beta, the Cross & Stake, TWoP and all the other big "Buffy Discussion Boards" of the day. Everyone is in agreement: The numbered T-shirts Mean Something Very Big.

Since I was new to online Buffy fandom, I was (to my deep embarrassment) willing to believe it was possible since I hadn't given much thought to Buffy beyond "fun, escapist show that's a deeper than a lot of other genre shows where I really, really enjoy the characters and the monsters." This was a whooooole new way of thinking about it, and it was a fun ride.

Then one of the costumers tries to break the bubble: The reason why so many of the characters were wearing number T-shirts in Season 6 was because the local thrift store (which you'll be shocked to know was used to costume the characters on a regular basis < /sarcasm >) was having a sale on them, so they bought the shirts in bulk.

This statement was backed up by Whedon and the rest of production.

So, in short the deeper meaning of the number T-shirts of Season 6 was that they were on sale and the costumers liked them so they bought them in bulk. And did we mention? SALE!

Speculation suddenly turns to wank. The news that the T-shirts have No Deeper Meaning is a LIE LIE LIE LIE! Production is lying to the fans to cover up the deeper meaning because they don't want the fanbase to figure out that big-bang-boom ending too soon (big-bang-boom ending including, of course, Xander going evil or being the Big Scooby Death), so they're LYING damn it! LYING I TELL YOU!

Meanwhile, I'm all, "Ummmmm, why the hell would anyone lie to their fanbase and say that there is no code when there is, in fact, a code?" (<----Note: I asked this before I found out that Mutant Enemy wasn't above lying to its own actors, let alone the fanbase.)

This was the reaction: SHUN THE UNBELIEVER! THERE IS A CODE IN THOSE T-SHIRTS! THEY'RE LYING TO KEEP IT SURPRISE!

Aaaaaaand that's about when I canceled my membership to The Stakehouse....

I'm "The Instigator," or at least I'm trying to be!!! I hope there's a huge-assed rumble at Comicon and everyone runs around screaming in circles. Hee hee. No worries. The Storm Troopers from Star Wars will be there to keep it chill.

Yeah, I've kind of noticed that disturbing trend among the hard-core Whedonites of late. If things don't pan out for Joss, the Whedonites seem to be called into action to "do something" on a regular basis.

Whedon loses the contract to write the script for Wonder Woman? Write post cards of complaint.

Firefly movie flops (and it did flop)? Try to pressure the studio into making a sequel and then buy multiple copies of "Serenity" to pass around to all your loved ones.

Whedon starting a new television series? Start the "Save Dollhouse" petition drive before the first script is written.

Look, I'm all for supporting an artist who's work you enjoy, but frankly the people at Whedonesque and their cult-like following of Joss scare the shit out of me.

Wow. Lots of crazy to go around out there, apparently.

I'm glad I missed that little episode. I have enough reasons to dislike Buffy fandom as it is.

Joss is not happy about that "Save Dollhouse" drive. He said he thinks it puts them in the *cheap seats.*

I too am a bit disturbed by the cult-of-Joss. Oh, and there are plenty of people on my flist who would gladly cut me if they saw this conversation.

Of course I mean, defriend, not cut. Although, some of them might actually cut me. With something sharp and shiny.

Well, I'm glad that Joss is disturbed by the "Save Dollhouse" drive, because that made me do a double-take.

I'd like to think most people on my FList would agree to disagree with this conversation, I know I'm living in a fool's paradise.

I mean, I've nearly come to blows with more than one Browncoat because they didn't like the thought that someone in their immediate vicinity didn't think that Firefly was the best science fiction show evah! And that was before Serenity was dying a slow death at the box office.

I do believe you're sooo, sooo right about the shiny cuts. *giggle*

That one totally passed me by even though I'd wandered into the online fandom stage sometime during season four. Maybe it was because I never posted on any of the "big" buffy discussion boards.

Fandom was batshit insane during S6 and S7.

Do you want to know the worst part about it?

At some point all that batshit would get to you. Then you'd find yourself doing the online equivalent of a "primal scream" in a forum.

I wasn't exactly wanking away, but eeeevery once in awhile someone would start wank and I'd find myself getting sucked into it.

[Dear, God, I remembered this one time I made a joke on TwOP — some throw-away line about James Marsters chewing the scenery "like that ham always does" but beyond that I can't even remember what I said or why it pissed people off. Right after that several dozen Spike fans invaded a general Buffy message board where I was "known" to hang out. They created almost 100 sock puppet accounts and and started flooding the board with messages about how they were going to track me down in RL and kick my ass or turn my ass in to the police for making felony threats against Marsters, as well as endless thread after endless thread of how much I sucked, and fake descriptions of my drug-addled and sexually fueled exploits with animals...no shit! That was the fall out from a throw-away line because I made a joke about how I wasn't all that impressed with Marster's acting. *boggles* In the end, the board owner had to shut down all new account creation, set the board to private, and then force all new people who wanted to join to go through a moderation process to prevent another invasion. It was nuts.]

The thing that kind of gets me is that online Buffy (well, Whedon) fandom is still just as crazy, but it's crazy in a completely different way. Rather than the crazy being about 'ships or characters, it's more centered on the Cult-of-Joss itself and cuts across several fandoms.

That's why when I see some good ol' fashioned "Xander-hate wank" (like on the Darkhorse Boards right this very second) it almost gives me a warm fuzzy because it's so...quaint.

Or it could be because you had already found your comfort level before the wank of S6 and S7 turned into a never-ending flood of splooge. I was just getting into online fandom in Season 6, so I was basically relying on search engines to show me where to get started.

That's probably the only reason why I ended up in those places to begin with.

Certainly by the beginning of S7 I rarely ventured onto the "big Buffy boards," primarily I just didn't find them all that much fun.

That sounds... totally plausible, given my experience with Buffy fandom. There's a reason why I try to avoid the fandom as much as possible, and why I don't consider myself a part of it, even though I write Buffy fic.

I'm sorry you had to go through all that, though. I'm sure it couldn't have been fun.

The Wire Season Two sits oddly with me - I find myself almost considering the docks storyline and the Barksdale gang storyline as being two totally different shows. Much as I really love both story arcs, somehow they don't work that well together and I'm unsure why.

But Season One is magnificent once you get used to the pace. I found myself watching episode after episode without quite understanding why I kept coming back until the infamous 'fuck' scene with Bunk and McNulty. Hook, line and sinker. To the extent that I've been basically squeeing all week waiting for tonight's episode of The Culture Show over here featuring David Simon talking about The Wire.

I learn amazing amounts of Buffy craziness reading your posts/comments. And I always message something about being happy I'm in the shallow end of the fandom pool as there are scary things out there in the deep end.

I'm a big lurker in the wank...happily watching the show and not even attempting to participate.

It's funny that my non-fan friends think I'm over the top. I made a single post saying people should check out Dr. Horrible on the off chance they don't know about it. The entry was on Twitter no less...mainly cause I figured LJ was covered, but my circle on twitter isn't all that fan-connected and I think it's a fun show to check out. Then people start commenting on their own streams re: the Cult of Whedon, not understanding the fascination yadda, yadda, yadda. I am so the tip of the tip of the tip of that iceberg. I like his stuff...not all his stuff, just the stuff I do happen to like. Because I tend to like his stuff, when new stuff comes out by him, I check it out (much as I do with other writers I like...Aaron Sorkin, etc.), but in no way do I assume perfection cause his name is attached. I don't think they really understand the scariness that is the Cult of Whedon if they think I'm representative of it.

Speaking of S6/S7...I own all the seasons...I have yet to watch those seasons since I got them. I can get myself through S5 and then all motivation to watch withers away. I think there are actually some episodes in those seasons that I've never seen. I just haven't found the motivation to go through them all.

As for Dr. Horrible, I'm actually more interested in the overall business model parts of this whole thing i.e. the making entertainment outside the studio system, "will this work?" of it all (sure, I'm entertained by it, but I'm more interested to see what happens next on the business level than the plot level).

To your original point...I've had The Wire recommended to me by at least one person in practically every circle of friends I have. Methinks I should finally get off my ass and Netflix the thing.

The fuck scene...that is such a thing of beauty.

I think somewhere in commentary for Season 3 you find out the genesis of Bunk's and McNulty's "fuck" dialog. It was based on a throw-away one-linger from a homicide cop that Simon had followed while he was researching Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets.

Apparently, the cop was joking about the fact that at some point all dialog at a crime scene was going to consist of just that one word of "fuck," just using different intonations to get across what the fuck actually means.

Years later, he remembered it, and decided to find out if it could be done.

The thing that really blows my mind about the main cast of the Wire during the first four seasons? At least three of them were from the UK (Dominic West — McNulty; Idris Elba — Stringer Bell; Aidan Gillen — Tommy Carcetti) and one has lived in London for 30 years (Clarke Peters — Lester Freamon).

Also, the guy who was the basis for Munch in Homicide(Jay Landsmen is his real name) had a speaking part in The Wire during Seasons 3 and 4 (He played the Sgt. in the Western District who'd give the shift briefings. Old guy. Glasses. Mustache. Really, really broad Baltimore accent.)

Idris Elba was always one of my favourite actors (ever since Ultraviolet - the vampire show, not the movie I hurry to add) so that was a kinda shock to hear him speaking like that when I first started. Similar to the surprise when you hear James 'Spike' Marsters speak in his normal American accent or Jamie 'Apollo' Bamber speaking all British.

I knew the real Jay Landsman was that guy (and again a double take moment), but did you know about the deacon? In his youth Melvin Williams, the actor who plays the Deacon, was a real-life drug kingpin who was arrested by series writer Ed Burns in 1984 when he was a Baltimore city police officer.

That I picked that up from the commentaries about Melvin Williams.

That and the homicide sergeant (the overweight one) is actually named after Jay Landsman.

I should've realized that Idris Elba was probably huge in the U.K. All I know is that when I heard his accent I was all, "Whaaaaaaaa?" Him and Dominic West both floored me like that.

I think Bamber does a fairly decent job with the non-descript American "broadcast" accent, but when he's "on" in some ways it sounds too perfect because it doesn't once waver or vary. It drives me a little nuts, actually.

As for Marsters, I remembered him from Northern Exposure (he was on in the last season), so I knew he wasn't British from the start. That, and it seemed that "Spike's" accent tended to take a tour of the British Isles on occasion. :-) [At least, that's what it sounded like to me when Marsters was in Spike mode, but it could be I could hear it because I knew he wasn't British to start with.]

Yes. You must Netflix it. It's like crack, but the good kind of crack where you lose sleep while watching it as opposed to the bad kind of crack that will kill you if you're not careful.

In fact, while I'm sitting here talking about it, I have this desperate need to go back an re-watch season 1. Like right now.

As for online Buffy fandom, you're probably better off being a lurker to be honest. While I've met some great people through Buffy fandom, there were days it made me want to tear my hear out

The Cult of Whedon (which I wouldn't say you're part of — the Cult of Whedon is "Joss can do no wrong") which grew out of Buffy/Angel fandom really is something complete different. They actually scare me a little bit because you can't tell them anything and suggesting that someone may have done something first and better (as in the case of Dr. Steel vs. Dr Horrible) is likely to get you a very, very bad reaction.

I loved Homicide Life on the streets. But I just can not get into the Wire. I should probably give it another shot.

I keep meaning to do the "rent-a-DVD-season" thing. There's a bunch of shows I want to check out, Wire and Dexter among them. Maybe when winter finally hits up here in Canada...

It's odd. While I can get irritatingly fanboi about shows, I'm not much of a *fan*. Getting involved in deep dark discussions and fanshipping wars just seems like a waste of time to me. I don't even get involved in Terry Pratchett fandom, a man for whom I would call another out onto the fields of honour with pistols at ten if said person didn't acknowledge Pterry's awesomeness.

As for Mama Mia...oy. I once was inveigled by my mother--right after a great aunt's funeral, may I add--into seeing that musical because she "didn't want to waste the ticket". Fine, it's ABBA. How bad can it be? Well, five minutes into the production I was frantically looking for the ejection seat handle. My crazed raving at intermission is still recalled with irritated amusement by my aunt. Every time I hear the movie commercial on the radio, I get the Swedish soft-rock equivalent of Nam flashbacks.

Yeah, the reviews from my friends have pretty much been "most. addictive. thing. ever."

I find the whole Dr. Steel/Dr. Horrible thing really interesting. All the Whedonites are latching onto Young Frankenstein as a singing/dancing mad scientist so obviously the idea wasn't stolen. I have to admit, I have some qualms about the plagiarism claims since it is an archetypal role; however, some of the similarities--propaganda-esque ads etc--do come a little too close for comfort.

But what I find most entertaining is that, let's say this were say...oh...Tim Burton doing a internet series about a girl with special powers that help her fight off...I don't know...aliens, while still surviving the vagaries of high school or some such oddness. The Whedonites would be all over the place, crying theft and not listening to a word of "Guys, Supergirl was fighting bad guys all through high school first." It's the tunnel vision, he can do no wrong...ever...that wigs me out.

Hee. Remember when Nicky Brendon did that interview with Will-from-Alias for Kitchen Confidential and admitted that Joss Whedon told him sometime around Season 4 or 5 of Buffy that "Xander was done," there was "no more" to tell about him? And the hardcore Whedonites bent over backwards trying to convince themselves that what NB actually meant was the exact opposite of what he actually said, because what NB actually said might have cast a less-than-positive light on Joss.

Now, I admit I've been reading the Season Eight comics (and the Angel: After the Fall comics from that other company ~~even though I still won't buy or read any of their Spike stuff~~), in part because Whedon finally seems to be giving Xander a plotline again (well, for Whedon, heaping tragedy and misery onto a character is the same thing as giving them a plotline), even though I'm not sure where he's going with it. But while I will admit Nick Brendon's not the absolute greatest actor in the world, I'm still a little suspicious of the fact that it took doing it in comic-book form -- y'know, without those pesky actors getting in the way -- for Joss to do it. (Given Joss's statements about how, if he had to, he'd ignore the comics as "canon" to make a Buffy live-action project, I suspect that the first step he would take would be to politely disinvite Nick Brendon and possibly Michelle Trachtenburg from participating, or at least limit them to cameos.)

I think that came from one of the interviews over the last year about the comics, where Whedon basically admitted that Dawn's college boyfriend being something called a "thricewise" was something he hadn't fully sketched out what it meant -- but he threw it in so it could be "filled in" later.

(Incidentally, with Dawn's newest transformation into a centaur, there's renewed speculation that Joss is going to have Xander and Dawn "hook up" somehow. At the very least, Georges Jeanty, the regular artist for the series, told a fan at a recent con that Xander would "hook up" later in the season with a character "we've seen before," so that his recently killed almost-girlfriend wouldn't be the last nail in his lovelife's coffin. Can you say "ick"? If nothing else, I'm convinced that Joss is making Dawn, with her magical transformations, the Official Buttmonkey of the comics.)

That's why when I see some good ol' fashioned "Xander-hate wank" (like on the Darkhorse Boards right this very second) it almost gives me a warm fuzzy because it's so...quaint.

I really shouldn't have gotten swept up into that, I know...*blushes*

Still, this past May was the tenth anniversary of the airing of Becoming Part II, the conclusion of Season Two, and oh yes, Xander's Lie (TM somebody over at TWOP). One of the muddled messages of the UPN years was supposedly about how Good People May Do Bad Things But They're Still Good People, Nothing is Unforgivable, and Redemption! Is! For! Everybody! (Just ask Spike, Willow, Andrew, Anya, etc.). And yet Ten. Years. Later. people are still seething with rage about "Kick his ass." Still waiting for Joss to have Xander "punished" for it. Still insisting that The Lie, or any of the countless things Xander said or did that people hate him for, is the sum total of Xander as a character and everything else counts for nothing.

Maybe Joss *should* have Xander turn evil, try to destroy the world, or try to kill/attack Buffy, because apparently those things can be forgiven by the audience.

I actually don't think the live action project will ever happen, or if it does, it'll be a re-imagining some 20 to 30 years down the road with a completely different cast. A lot of it is because most of the cast isn't nearly as interested as fans think they are, if you go by the throw-away comments they've made over the years.

As for the Xander storyline in the comics, I'm not convinced that it's so much an actor being replaced by a paper doll that's at issue as it is the lack of network interference (remember UPN practically ordered Joss to use "Spike" more in Season 7 -- remember the memo that got touted all over hell and creation when it was leaked?) as well as a changed situation opening up possibilities.

*shrug*

It's impossible to speculate since we don't actually know, well, anything. I'd put the re-appearance of anything of a live-action very, very low.

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Does this make me a Bad Fan?

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