liz_marcs | No, Calling Someone a "Wop" is NOT Okay

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No, Calling Someone a "Wop" is NOT Okay

Dear Television Without Pity,

Calling a television character a "wop" is NOT okay. It is NOT OKAY on an epic scale. It isn't even okay when your last name ends in a vowel (read: Italian for idiots like your Supernatural recapper) and you're calling someone else whose last name ends in a vowel a "wop."

Calling someone a dago? Not okay either. Waaaaaay not okay.

Calling someone a "guido" is iffy. Okay if your last name ends in a vowel, but so not okay if you're not in the Italian-by-blood club. It's not even okay if you're in the Italian-by-marriage club. Italian-by-blood only, got me? Otherwise, there will be blood, and it sure as shit will be the non-Italian in the equation.

Goombah is okay, because it's more a personality type than it is an actual, oh, ethnic slur, like the afore-mentioned "wop" and "dago" and (sometimes) "guido."

Now, if you had used those ethnic slur terms (like pow-pow-pow on one page) just in this spot as a commentary on how Supernatural does not do ethnic characters well, I'd get it. I wouldn't be happy reading that bullshit over my morning bagel, but I'd get that you were making a point.

But to call a character a "wop" through most of the freakin' episode summary?

How the hell did that get by your internal brain filters? Let alone the site editors? I mean, everyone thought that this was perfectly okay to let something like that go? Are you shitting me?

Look, I know Italians in the U.S. aren't exactly an ethnic minority, but Jesus Christ! You can't possibly think that calling an Italian character from Brooklyn, no matter how stereotypical, a "wop" or a "dago" is at all okay. And considering you kept using the word "wop," I'm not willing to give you a bye on that "guido," either.

Jesus Christ.

And yeah, I'm emailing a complaint. Dickwad.

No love for you ever,

Liz, whose real-life last name ends in a vowel, along with half my relatives

P.S. — I am most certainly am not, and never have been a "wop" or a "dago," and I'm most certainly the wrong sex for being a "guido." I have, on occasion, been a goombah. Which you're about to find out. Jesus.

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Wow. As a Chinese man, I mostly give people a pass when they use "Oriental," because a) very few people outside of younger, Gen-X/Y, East-Asian even know why people consider it offensive. My Dad even uses it to describe himself.

But using "wop"? That's just remarkably idiotic.

Using "wop" is the equivalent of saying "slant eyes" (*gulp* no offense...just explaining the level by comparison).

But...yeah. I tend to give people a bye on "guido," because that's more of an "older generation" that takes exception to that. I'm young enough that I can go either way. People younger than me tend to think it describes a personality type like "goombah" and based their reaction on context.

But, unbelievable. It's really kind of unbelievable to read "wop" over and over again on a sort-of professional Web site.

I'm horrified to hear that they've done that! I'm going to have to change my TWOP icon, because that's way outta line.

Given my experience with "oriental," my first thought was that the use throughout the recap was based on some ignorance of the offensive nature of the term.

But after thinking about it a bit, I don't really hear the term thrown around much anymore (at least in my experience), which may suggest the writer/editors intended to evoke the offensiveness.

Either way, it's quite the stupid.

When I was in high school (early 90s), "guido" was an oft-used term for a specific clique in my high school. I grew up in a small, suburban, hugely Italian town and it wasn't presented as a derogatory term, just what this group of kids called themselves. I didn't learn of its larger, general offensive nature until I was in college with a more ethically diverse group of people.

(Put in me in the group of folks that use the word "Oriental" to describe myself once in a while. My parents use it and I use it mostly out of habit. I will most frequently use the word "Asian" to describe myself or "Filipina" in a setting where greater specificity is required.)

Not ethically.. ETHNICALLY. *facepalms*

Did something get in the water supply that is making the world use ethnic slurs all the time now?

What the HELL.

I think it's fair to say that I'm absolutely stunned on top of the rage.

I mean, like I said, if it had been in that one section I linked to, I could see where the recapper was making a point, even if he was making it badly. But to read pages of it? Oh, no-no-no-no.

Here's what's really getting to me: Links to email the site aren't working, so there's no way for me email the site to complain.

Fuck it. I might just email Bravo to complain. They own the site now. I can't see Bravo being okay with this, can you?

The emails for Wing Chun and Sars are wingchun at televisionwithoutpity.com and sars at televisionwithoutpity.com respectively. My email didn't bounce back.

Thanks for that.

Don't thank me yet. Both emails eventually did bounce. :(

I sent a forward to tech at televisionwithoutpity.com asking that my email be forwarded to a working address for Sars and Wing Chun. I also asked to be alerted once that's been done. If that bounces back or I don't get a reply, I'll track down and send emails to Bravo corporate.

Okay.

I have a feeling we will end up having to send email to Bravo, where it will disappear. Sigh.

The tech address did not bounce. (It's been nearly 3 hours.)

No reply, though. If I don't get one by this evening, I'll start trying to track down people to contact at the Bravo Network. Maybe someone in their pr department.

FYI: http://liz-marcs.livejournal.com/302604.html?thread=5567756#t5567756

Yup, I saw. Thanks.

No, I'm wrong. It just bounced. Took forever, too. I sent a fwd to tech@televisionwithoutpity.com asking for my email to be forwarded to a working address for them both, and that I be alerted once that's been done.

If that bounces back or I don't get a reply, I'll send emails to Bravo corporate.

Now that we're done with the Jews, time to move onto the Italians? What the hell is wrong with people. I don't really spend time over at TWoP any more and now I'm glad.

It appears we're all taking turns.

I'm just...no really. Never thought I'd be looking at this kind of shit from this angle. Nope. Not at all.

I'm still more baffled than angry. I mean, there are people in my comments who don't know what "wop" and "dago" mean, and to me that means that they've been pretty successfully erased from everyday usage, and maybe if he'd used one of them once to point out that Richie was a stereotype, I'd have been taken aback, but let it pass, but this was OVER AND OVER in a way that seems calculated to offend. I'm really surprised the editors let it go. If there's no way to contact Sars or Wing or whoever's in charge over there now, I think letting Bravo - and the advertisers on the site - know, is a good idea.

I'm angry I think because I was called a wop a few times when I was kid. *snarl* So it was sort of in use in the industrial northeast until the late 70s or so. Then...not so much. It just dropped out of use, which good riddance.

But I'm with you. If it was in one spot, I could see the recapper was making a point about the Richie character. But going on for several pages with FUCKING UNBEARABLE WOP (all caps, no less) was just...grrrrrrr.

I couldn't get the links to email Sars or Wing to work, so Bravo is definitely my next stop. I'm going to calm down first and think about what to write and send the email off later today.

Oh, I know it was in use then, I just happened to be lucky enough to never have it directed at me.

But going on for several pages with FUCKING UNBEARABLE WOP (all caps, no less) was just...grrrrrrr.

Yeah, that's the part that I just can't believe.

I mean, there are people in my comments who don't know what "wop" and "dago" mean, and to me that means that they've been pretty successfully erased from everyday usage

I said this in another comment, but this is why I'm leaning toward the latter side of the "ignorant use vs. offensive intent" spectrum. The author had to be aware of the meaning (and context) of the word to put it to use.

Oh, I don't think Demian is ignorant of what the words mean; I just think he's a moron for thinking repeated use of an ethnic slur is supposed to be funny or insightful or whatever he intended it to be.

I knew that it was an unpleasant term used for people of X ethnic group, but I didn't know what X was.

Ethnic and racial slurs suck. :-(

Oy fucking vey, am I going to have to seriously bust some heads here myself?

Italian-by-blood only, got me?

In the Italian-by-blood club here, and I don't know. Maybe if it depends on the context.

Look, I know Italians in the U.S. aren't exactly an ethnic minority

True. But back a few generations ago, when those of us that are Italian have ancestors who were fresh-off-the-boat, damn, were those stereotypes more prevalent. Not like they've grown less annoying either.

I kid you not, I had to scream loud and often to get my college friends to stop making jokes about having my "cousin Guido come and bust some kneecaps." Oh, my GOD, people, not all Italians are mobsters! Or even making with the mafia connections!`

I have never actually heard those words used, but have seen them in fiction. Didn't know what they actually meant but I knew they were racial slurs, and filed them under "words like the n-word, not to be used."

I understand one person being an idiot or trying to be deliberately offensive (or a combination thereof). It should not happen, but it does, especially on the net.
But isn't there oversight, an editor or something? Was everyone out to lunch when the summary was turned in, or aren't these reviewed?
And non-working email links? Wow, fail.

I suspect this is an act of ignorance, rather than a deliberate attempt to attack Italian-Americans.

I grew up in Queens and Brooklyn. Both have large Italian-American communities. So I know what the term means. But someone who didn't -- someone whose sole exposure to Italian Americans is Tony Danza, The Sopranos and Joey on Friends may not realize, or if they do, may not realize its severity.

If Demian had used the "N" word or any other obvious, more commonly used racial slur throughout his recap, I'd like to think that Wing Chun and Sars would have censored it in a heartbeat. I'm equally sure that if Bravo was actually overseeing the site, they would have flagged this fast.

I sent emails to Sars and Wing Chun, asking them to remove it. :(

Maybe he didn't know. But, dude, how do you not say to yourself, "Gosh, I think that before I use this slang term for an individual of a certain ethnicity, I'm going to check around and make sure it's not offensive?"

He may have been ignorant of its meaning, but not checking whether the term had derogatory meanings before he wrote and posted the review isn't right.

No idea. I totally agree he should have. Doing so wouldn't have been hard: ten seconds on wikipedia provides the etymology of the word and flags it as a slur.

Over the years I've had a number of business colleagues (clients and contacts) make joking antisemitic remarks to me. I never understood the thought process that went into that, either. If a person knows they're talking to someone who's Jewish, why would they risk offending them?

If a person knows they're talking to someone who's Jewish, why would they risk offending them?

I have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE. Good God, that's just wrong. I have a coworker who once made a comment about how she asked her best friend "how do you Jew down your babysitters all the time" and then, when I called her on it, tried to use the excuse that her Jewish neighbors so it, so she thought it was okay for her to say it too.

Which, um. Not okay. For her or for them, IMO.

See "Bohunk" which I call myself but would never, ever, apply to Radek Zelenka.

There's a portion of the post-boomer PoMo post hippy online population who think using ethnic slurs is edgy and cute. That's part of why I avoid

seattle these days, as the attitude is endemic there. I guess having to break oneself of unthinking expressions of bigotry long after understanding Why One Doesn't is a more effective lesson than all the MLK Day assemblies of a lifetime.

Julia, even my father stopped doing it, about the time he voted for Jesse Jackson for president

Is the writer from Louisiana, by any chance? When my parents went to New Orleans in the 80s, they brought back a menu that had "Wop Salad" right on the menu.

Actually, according to a thread in

musesfool's LJ, he's from Chicago (http://musesfool.livejournal.com/1459274.html?thread=29366858#t29366858).

I'm not going to argue that there's no prejudice in New Orleans or Louisiana, but New Orleans has a substantial Italian population. In particular, there were many Sicilian immigrants who arrived in the late 19th/early 20th century (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=338358).

I usually love TwoP, but I cannot STAND Demien or whatever his name is. He's a foul little prick who NEVER has ANYTHING positive to say about the show, and his attitude on the boards is absolutely disgusting. After this, I hope TwoP finally responds to the reams of complaints they get about him, and fire his ass.

Fired off an angry but polite note to

http://www.bravotv.com/Contact_Us/index.shtml

making sure to use the term racial slurs and suggesting that it reflects badly on their association with the site.

i just stumbled across this, which has a correct email for SARS and a somewhat flippant response from her:

http://winterlive.livejournal.com/399087.html

Oh. Fuck. Me.

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No, Calling Someone a "Wop" is NOT Okay

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