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A brief message from your sponsor...
*looks at previous post*
*squeaks in terror*
A big blanket thank you to everyone who commented and passed around the link so people can see the exchange for themselves.
But I also feel like I need to reiterate something that I've said previously: 6A/LJ is private property. I understand that. I also understand that 6A/LJ has the right to dictate the terms under which we use their service.
My problem with 6A/LJ is the same as it's always been: Sucktastic customer service, of which the linking issue is just the latest example.
The policy as spelled out by "Alice" (who I think is simply a nom de plume used by all members of LJAbuse) has not been spelled out in any public forum where customers can read it over for themselves, it's not part of the ToS as it currently exists, and it's yet another example of 6A/LJ going back on its word that we the customers would have at least some input into any major policy changes.
I also understand what exactly "Alice's" message said: As it stands LJ will not be seeking out and checking your links for ToS'able content. Instead, they plan to leave that to the trolls who'll have easy access to a "Report Abuse" button when they finally find something in your old posts that will make your life marginally more difficult.
LJ also will not suspend or delete you for ToS'able links, nor will it count as one of the two strikes against you, provided they can tell from the context that the link was not ToS'able at the time you posted it (i.e., some porn-porn-porn operator is now where your cool link used to be).
Of course, where this leaves people who are posting ToS'able links because they want to discuss an issue/situation/problem that's being discussed elsewhere is really an open question.
Also left for an open question: What will constitute "proof" to the satisfaction of LJAbuse that you didn't mean to post a link to dirty-bad-wrong-dot-com? We've already seen evidence that artists slapping "these characters are over 18" all over their erotic artwork are still getting suspended and strikes against them whenever LJAbuse randomly decides that the disclaimer is a big ol' lie.
In short, my big ol' problem with the linking issue — other than the fact that I've never encountered anything like it in the more than 10 years I've been online — is that "Alice's" word does not hold the same weight as a public post on one of the official forums. We also (again) have no transparency about the process LJAbuse goes through to investigate a complaint, guidelines that LJAbuse has to follow when reaching a resolution, or a step-by-step process a customer can go through to appeal a "strike" if it is leveled against their journal.
In short, we're relying on the word of someone who is probably a volunteer with no decision-making authority discussing the linking issue in broad terms in private messages. Someone higher up in the food chain can counter the assurances given (such as they are) and do something completely different.
Besides, it's not like 6A/LJ has gone back on its public and official statements to the customer base over the past few months, is it. [/sarcasm]
Because, remember, we are responsible for what we link to and we've been told that it's probably a good idea to go back and check our links. Not just any blogroll we've got to the right or the left of our entries, but every single link ever linked in an entry.
That's not even taking into account that we, the customers, still don't have very clear guidelines about what's ToS'able and what isn't. Somewhere between the (not allowed) child porn and the (allowed) Nazi-white-power-race-baiting communities is a big ol' field of grey that is not defined at all.
It's that field of grey that's the killer. Step onto the wrong shade grey, even if it (from your point of view) is a lighter shade of grey than the stuff that's allowed, you could find yourself with (at the very least) a suspended journal and a strike closer to the banhammer.
And on another note:
If I hear "child porn" or even just "porn" thrown out one. more. time. as an "example" of what's ToS'able, I'm going to scream.
For the last freaking time people, this isn't about child porn or any other kind of porn. Child porn is the shiny, shiny, shiny example that 6A/LJ keeps throwing out hoping that it'll get the discontents to shut the hell up. It's the big, fat, ugly stick that certain trolls and outside parties who want to "clean up LJ" are using to beat people who've got the temerity to disagree with them and call them exactly what they are: "trolls and vigilantes." It's the big ol' paintbrush that is being used to paint everyone who's pissed off about 6A/LJ's bad customer service as drama queens and whiners.
In short, it's the weapon people are trying to use to shut down debate about what is fundamentally a bad customer service issue.
So for the last time:
Thinking that LJ/6A is overstepping its bounds; asking LJ/6A to finally come clean and update the damn ToS so that everyone is clear about the ground rules; and demanding transparency in the overall disciplinary process does not equal drama queening because someone is taking away the Harry Potter pr0n or harshing on fandom's dirty little pleasures.
I'm not saying that there's no drama queening going on (because God knows there most certainly is), and I'm not saying that for some people that it really is about the right to access porn of all stripes (because God knows that for some people it is).
The fact is that for an awful lot of us (probably the majority) it's about demanding that 6A/LJ act like responsible landlords, grow a damn spine, and start treating us like customers instead of a disposable resource made up of misfits incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.
So, for God's sake, stop saying that it's all about porn. Because it isn't.
*squeaks in terror*
A big blanket thank you to everyone who commented and passed around the link so people can see the exchange for themselves.
But I also feel like I need to reiterate something that I've said previously: 6A/LJ is private property. I understand that. I also understand that 6A/LJ has the right to dictate the terms under which we use their service.
My problem with 6A/LJ is the same as it's always been: Sucktastic customer service, of which the linking issue is just the latest example.
The policy as spelled out by "Alice" (who I think is simply a nom de plume used by all members of LJAbuse) has not been spelled out in any public forum where customers can read it over for themselves, it's not part of the ToS as it currently exists, and it's yet another example of 6A/LJ going back on its word that we the customers would have at least some input into any major policy changes.
I also understand what exactly "Alice's" message said: As it stands LJ will not be seeking out and checking your links for ToS'able content. Instead, they plan to leave that to the trolls who'll have easy access to a "Report Abuse" button when they finally find something in your old posts that will make your life marginally more difficult.
LJ also will not suspend or delete you for ToS'able links, nor will it count as one of the two strikes against you, provided they can tell from the context that the link was not ToS'able at the time you posted it (i.e., some porn-porn-porn operator is now where your cool link used to be).
Of course, where this leaves people who are posting ToS'able links because they want to discuss an issue/situation/problem that's being discussed elsewhere is really an open question.
Also left for an open question: What will constitute "proof" to the satisfaction of LJAbuse that you didn't mean to post a link to dirty-bad-wrong-dot-com? We've already seen evidence that artists slapping "these characters are over 18" all over their erotic artwork are still getting suspended and strikes against them whenever LJAbuse randomly decides that the disclaimer is a big ol' lie.
In short, my big ol' problem with the linking issue — other than the fact that I've never encountered anything like it in the more than 10 years I've been online — is that "Alice's" word does not hold the same weight as a public post on one of the official forums. We also (again) have no transparency about the process LJAbuse goes through to investigate a complaint, guidelines that LJAbuse has to follow when reaching a resolution, or a step-by-step process a customer can go through to appeal a "strike" if it is leveled against their journal.
In short, we're relying on the word of someone who is probably a volunteer with no decision-making authority discussing the linking issue in broad terms in private messages. Someone higher up in the food chain can counter the assurances given (such as they are) and do something completely different.
Besides, it's not like 6A/LJ has gone back on its public and official statements to the customer base over the past few months, is it. [/sarcasm]
Because, remember, we are responsible for what we link to and we've been told that it's probably a good idea to go back and check our links. Not just any blogroll we've got to the right or the left of our entries, but every single link ever linked in an entry.
That's not even taking into account that we, the customers, still don't have very clear guidelines about what's ToS'able and what isn't. Somewhere between the (not allowed) child porn and the (allowed) Nazi-white-power-race-baiting communities is a big ol' field of grey that is not defined at all.
It's that field of grey that's the killer. Step onto the wrong shade grey, even if it (from your point of view) is a lighter shade of grey than the stuff that's allowed, you could find yourself with (at the very least) a suspended journal and a strike closer to the banhammer.
And on another note:
If I hear "child porn" or even just "porn" thrown out one. more. time. as an "example" of what's ToS'able, I'm going to scream.
For the last freaking time people, this isn't about child porn or any other kind of porn. Child porn is the shiny, shiny, shiny example that 6A/LJ keeps throwing out hoping that it'll get the discontents to shut the hell up. It's the big, fat, ugly stick that certain trolls and outside parties who want to "clean up LJ" are using to beat people who've got the temerity to disagree with them and call them exactly what they are: "trolls and vigilantes." It's the big ol' paintbrush that is being used to paint everyone who's pissed off about 6A/LJ's bad customer service as drama queens and whiners.
In short, it's the weapon people are trying to use to shut down debate about what is fundamentally a bad customer service issue.
So for the last time:
Thinking that LJ/6A is overstepping its bounds; asking LJ/6A to finally come clean and update the damn ToS so that everyone is clear about the ground rules; and demanding transparency in the overall disciplinary process does not equal drama queening because someone is taking away the Harry Potter pr0n or harshing on fandom's dirty little pleasures.
I'm not saying that there's no drama queening going on (because God knows there most certainly is), and I'm not saying that for some people that it really is about the right to access porn of all stripes (because God knows that for some people it is).
The fact is that for an awful lot of us (probably the majority) it's about demanding that 6A/LJ act like responsible landlords, grow a damn spine, and start treating us like customers instead of a disposable resource made up of misfits incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.
So, for God's sake, stop saying that it's all about porn. Because it isn't.
no subject
Several times now I've had people assume that I enjoy porn, and am protesting about LJ's behavior because I "support" the makers of porn, particularly child or underage porn.
I want to just scream at those people! I am one of those who hates porn in all its forms. I find it demeaning and without redeeming value. Even adult and consentual porn, to me, is taking a special, wonderful, practically sacred act and making it into cheap entertainment, and I dislike it intensely.
But my dislike means that I personally don't want to look at the stuff ever. It does NOT freaking mean that I think all porn everywhere should be banned. If you want to draw Snarry, or whatever other icky thing floats your boat, go ahead! Just stick it behind a cut, and I will be fine and dandy with it.
And my protest over LJ's behavior is just that, it's over LJ's behavior. If they were to, up front and in public, announce a consistent policy of banning all pornographic content, I'd be perfectly fine with it. It would be a little stupid on their part, given the loss of business they'd have, but hey, so long as they're honest about it, who cares? It's the underhanded, sneaky, and frankly downright insulting way they're going about this that I protest. (I mean come on. They seem to think we're not going to notice what they're up to!)
And I really, really, really, really wish that LJ would quit insisting that this is all about the children, or all about the legal requirements. That's a total load of crap, and if their lawyer actually told them that, he should be fired, because the way they're monitoring content may actually get them in more legal trouble than if they weren't keeping such a close eye on what people are posting.
Grrr. Still so ticked off about this whole mess.
no subject
While I understand that there's probably a paradigm shift somewhere in the corporate offices from users = customers to advertisers = customers, that doesn't negate the fact that users = subscribers. Aside from being an additional flow of cash into corporate customers, subscribers are the reason why any advertisers throw money around. Scare off the subscribers, you manage to kill off the whole golden goose.
But, yeah, I'm pretty sick and tired of my complaints being waved off as "I want my porn." I don't write porn (even if I have no problem with porn as a general rule). I don't exactly go out of my way looking for porn. I don't think the Internet is about porn.
[Disclaimer: I have actually one post in which I wrote porn, but it was to show people why I don't write it. I'm terrible at writing porn and this was my "proof" that I am.]
And I'm sick and tired of being painted a "drama queen" just because there has been drama queening from other parties in this mess.
One of us =/= all of us, damn it.
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But being lied to and deflected by a company I pay for services? That's something I care about, and something I'm going to fight. So yeah, porn is not the issue. Not for me, at least.
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I just can't believe there are people out there who still don't see the problem with 6A's links policy and don't seem to grasp the nigh-impossiblity of going back and checking every link in every single post and response (some of us post 365) to make sure it's pointing to something safe.
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Personally, I am not a big writer of porn, whether it be child, normal, or whatever. I've read it, and I know that a lot of those who write or draw this stuff are actually really talented people. And we're losing these people to other journals. I don't want to move my journal because the majority of my friends are on this one and don't really have anything to fear with being banned or such, but I hate the fact that this entire thing is splitting fandom.
I just want to say thank you to YOU for doing all this - putting up with "Alice" and trying to let us all know at least a little bit of what's going on. What's sad is that these are the clearest answers we have, and all they're doing is creating more questions.
no subject
"Alice" clearly had her script and she was sticking to it. Again, bad customer service. That's the reason I've got journals set up elsewhere, because I haven't decided if I'm going to be leaving LJ or not. I do know I want my stuff elsewhere because I don't trust LJ/6A any more and I have to watch my own back.