liz_marcs | Is it me? Or are some people insane?

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Is it me? Or are some people insane?

So, in the course of cashing a check yesterday afternoon (the bank's right next door to where I work), I scored big on the coin front.

I got four of the shiny, new gold Washington dollar coins in my change. (Yay!)

However, my glee was short-lived, thanks to the following exchange with the ignorant.

OH = Our Heroine
Him = College-aged guy bank teller

*****

OH: Pretty!

Him: They're nice aren't they? At last, a dollar coin I can support.

OH: [puzzled] Well, they are distinctive, with the gold color and the really angry George Washington face.

Him: It's the first dollar coin that says "In God We Trust."

OH: No it isn't.

Him: Yes, it is.

OH: No it isn't. All modern American money has "In God We Trust" on it. There's not a chance that any dollar coin minted in the 20th century doesn't have it.

Him: Well they didn't.

OH: [looking at George Washington coin] You're wrong about dollar coins in the past. And you're definitely wrong about this one. There's no "In God We Trust" on it anywhere.

Him: [smug] Look at the edge of the coin.

OH: [looks at edge of the coin; sees "In God We Trust" etched in light letters around the edge] That's...a very weird place to put it. Usually that's on the face of the coin.

Him: Not on dollar coins. It's never been on a dollar coin. That's why I like this coin, because it has "In God We Trust" on it.

OH: [gives up on schooling the ignorant] What difference does it make whether the saying's there or not? Money's money.

Him: [looks at OH with disgust] It makes a big difference.

OH: [backs slowly away from the ka-raz-ee] I gotta get to work. Deadline.

Now, this guy was so convinced that "In God We Trust" never appeared on a coin, that nothing I said convinced him. End result? I decided to check who was right.

Which of these coins is not like the other?

Note "In God We Trust" right under Ike's chin.

Note "In God We Trust" right under Susan's chin.

Note "In God We Trust" right behind Sacagawea's head.

Note the lack of "In God We Trust" on the coin's face

Now, am I missing something? Is someone somewhere spreading some kind of urban legend that modern dollar coins don't have "In God We Trust" on them? Why the hell would anyone do that?

Because if you look, dollar coins before the 1920s didn't have the saying, and absolutely no U.S. currency had the saying prior to the Civil War.

So, here we have it. Modern U.S. coins and bills have the saying on the face of the coin or bill. Now we have a coin where it's etched on the edge in veeeeeery light letters. If it's important to you to have "In God We Trust" on the money, how is this considered a good thing? (As I said. I couldn't care less. Money is money.) Isn't having the saying along the edge, I dunno, a demotion?

Also, why does it even matter that "In God We Trust" is on the money anyway? Who really cares about this? It seems like such a...I dunno...a petty thing to be worried about.

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Oh, an occasion to quote Ferlinghetti, those don't happen often enough.
"I have read Reader's Digest
from cover to cover
and noted the close identification
of the United States and the Promised Land
where every coin is marked
In God We Trust
but the dollar bills do not have it
being gods unto themselves"
-Lawrence Ferlinghetti, "Autobiography" (1957)
The quote is no longer accurate because they started putting "In God We Trust" on all paper money in 1957 as well. But it is still the first thing I think of when I get in discussion s about it (more often than you'd think). It started during the Civil War with coins. But was not always followed. 1908 (I think) was when it was mandated (again) that it appear on coins. The law requiring it on paper money passed in 1956 and in 1957 it began to appear and was phased into use on all paper bills.

Ooooo, cool. I was right, but for the wrong reasons and I had my dates a little mussed. I knew the paper money thing came up during the McCarthy era, but I wasn't 100% sure on it. I do know that I have some pre-Civil War coins from the 1800s where I didn't see it at all.

And I certainly can't imagine any of the Founding Fathers be at all okay with stamping "God" on money or any other legal tender or civil document. However religious (or not religious) they were, most of those guys were very, very prickly about government getting mixed up anything religious.

Of course it's petty to you, you atheisic commonist. But true Americans CARE about these things!

(Snerk.)

No wonder we've got the culture wars going on with you people thinking this isn't CRITICAL, dammit!

Boy, he does look pissed off, doesn't he. Sacagawea's the only one who doesn't look like she's got hemhorroids in the whole bunch.

Why do we hate America? *snerk*

Viva la...unh...ummmm...what revolution are we fighting for again? Is it for hugs and puppies or against? I lost my "godless heathen" manual and they haven't sent me a new copy.

Personally, I like dollar coins. It's an idea whose time has definitely come. The problem in this country is that (unlike in other countries that have pushed the dollar coin or its equivalent) our government won't yank the paper dollars off the market and force the switch.

But, yeah, the Sac one is the prettiest. I really like that coin.

I firmly believe that if WE had called our dollar coin the loonie, it would have taken off immediately.

Hee, we Canadians have a sense of humour about our money! We now have the loonie and the toonie. Loonytunes R Us.

I had a stupid bitch once tell me "If you don't like God, don't spend money that says 'In God we Trust' on it."

To which I replied "And what other fucking option is there? And don't question my fucking patriotism just because I disagree with a slogan which only came about during the postwar era, sunshine."

These Xians really have their heads up their asses half the time.

Heeeee!

But seriously, why is this an !OMIGAWD seeeeeerius ishu! with some people. I'm on the side of "not-caring," but I can understand the impulse to just get God out of anything having to do with civil affairs (including money) — hey, I'm a hardcore separationist myself. I just think getting it off the money is waaaaaaay down on the list of things we need to worry about when it comes to religion invading public policy.

Then again, I have my own weird thing that people think is petty. I want the state to get out of the marriage business and call "marriage" a civil union or a legal union. Hell, call it a "contract between individuals," for all I care, but don't call it "marriage." Leave marriage to the religions, where they can handle the issue however the hell they want.

Which, yeah. I lot of people look at me when I'm nuts when I say that. Personally, I think changing the name on the union certificate from "marriage" to something else would solve a lot of problems.

But hey, my parents and the sib agrees with me. So if I'm nuts, it's probably inherited.

I freakin' adore you! You gave me a bzhuh? moment and a Bwahaha! moment all at the same time! And golden George does look extremely pissed off. (Probably because the front of his coin doesn't say "In God We Trust"!) Snerk!

And, yes, the whole IGWT thiing was to show the godless communists that we were gonna win, 'cause we had God on Our Side (or . . . at least on our money.)

*shakes head*

It's amazing to me that the whole "God on money and in the Pledge" argument completely discounts history. It's surprising that there's very little historical weight or tradition behind either.

For example, in my brother's DVD set of Looney Tunes, one of the extras is a 1939 film where Porky Pig (who was the star of Looney Tunes at the time) learns the Pledge of Allegiance. There is no "under God" in it, because at the time the line wasn't there. It was inserted in the pledge in the 1950s (right about the time "In God We Trust" was slapped on money and for the same reason).

It's just simply nuts because the mention of God on money and in the Pledge was done for political reasons and, as such, are completely devoid of any meaning as far as I can see.

Really, it's puzzling that's it's this huuuuuuuge deal today. You'd think that this stuff existed at the time of the Constitutional Convention, which it clearly didn't.

This is neither here nor there, but MY GOD is that coin ugly. Is there not another picture that they could have used?

That is one terrifying looking portrait. I loves me the Sac dollar, though. That one is legitimately beautiful.

Sheesh. It looks to me like the picture on that coin should be captioned "George Washington will fuck your shit up and laugh about it later." Who the hell picked that image?

That is a scary-looking George Washington.

Hopefully they never make a commemorative Dick Cheney coin. It would probably be able to curdle milk and make babies cry...

I'm boggled at the In God We Trust thing, since the Bible, that funky little book that was supposed to be *written by God* says that we are supposed to eschew material wealth as a spiritual trap, and covet instead spiritual riches in Heaven. Considering that the religious right is filthy stinking rich, I guess it's only fitting that they want God's name on their money, since money *is* their God...

Part of what I find bizarre is that he was initiating this particular conversation with a bank patron. Banks are right up there on the list of institutions that one assumes to be pretty neutral on all things God. It strikes me as lucky for him that your main interest was in historical accuracy. I'm curious what he's going to do when he starts this conversation with a patron who thinks there so be no reference of any money to God - and may even be passionate about that point of view.

See? That's why I was so blind-sided, because: 1) Bluest of blue northern states here; 2) Urban area; 3) bank.

I'm sure that if a supervisor was around, he would've had his head handed to him because of the vaguely religious tone of the conversation.

As for me, I've never thought one way or the other about it and I honestly don't think it's that important. Have it there. Not have it there. Whatever.

What got me is that he seemed disgusted by the idea that I just don't care about it.

Like you said, I see big problems in this guy's future if he gets himself a patron that emphatically doesn't think it should be there. And that someone may not necessarily be an atheist. There are quite a few Christians who don't think it belongs on money or as a statement of government policy.

Yeah, I fall in the category of a Christian who is uncomfortable with any forced participation in faith, be it on money or in the Pledge of Allegiance. I'd likely have just quietly backed away, but if he caught me in the right mood, I might have engaged him in a fierce, "Do you really think a believer in God should be spending time getting God's name on money or could there maybe be something more appropriate to do with that kind of time and clout?"

Interestingly Teddy Roosevelt was against "In God We Trust" being on money for reasons similar to the one you have and he went a step further and thought it was sacrilegious.

Maybe the opinions of some of the Presidents was a reason they put the motto in edge lettering?

(Also cool, the word "Liberty" isn't on the coin since the reverse is the Statue of Liberty.)

Isn't having the saying along the edge, I dunno, a demotion? Snerk. And yeah, good point.

As a former bank teller, this guy isn't paying attention. Now, personally, I always hated getting Sacagaweas and Susan B. Anthonys (other than, "Go chicks!") because no one wanted them and I had to remember to count them every night and not count the Susan B.'s as quarters. But that's a teller's day in the cages, and a tale for another day.

I'm just befuddled at this guy's random, well, we can't call it proselytizing, I don't know - Goddy Pride? - while serving a customer to the point of becoming somewhat snippy (and wrong) with you. Weird.

I'm utterly mystified myself. My mother was a teller. I had friends who were tellers. I can't imagine any of them having a conversation like this.

And, yeah, my mother hated the Susan Bs, too. She'd sometimes forget and count them as quarters, which meant recounting the drawer to look for why she was 75 cents off.

She liked the Sac dollars, if only because they were easy to spot.

I really don't get the putting "In God we Trust" on money. Why money? Is it to remind people that money's just a tool and they shouldn't put their trust in it? Somehow I doubt it.

And if they wanted something religious on money, I'm sure they could have thought of something more to the point. Like "Money is the root of every kind of evil". That would be a good thing to have on it. Like a health warning.

As I said in

dark_christian just a few minutes ago, "Facts are Tools of Satan." };->

~M~

Well, since our money isn't backed by a gold or silver standard, you better sure as heck trust in god to keep the inflation down, no? :) LOL. Or at least, that's the only important reason I can come up with.

Heh. I can't help but look at that and think it was a spinoff from the Depression. "In God We Trust. All Others Pay Cash." *grin*

And your reaction to the guy? TOTALLY the same as mine.

I would have told him that I'd be happy to relieve him of any heathen money he might have on him. **g**

And every single presidential portrait that was picked for those dollar coins is scary. Hubby and I were commenting on that just the other day. In fact, I think George is about to say, "Go ahead. Make my day."

I love the totally pissed-off George. An angry coin is a coin that I can get behind.

The teller was really out of line, but he only made himself (and by extension, the bank) look bad.

I have a five dollar silver certificate without "In God We Trust" but every other piece of American currency I've ever seen has it right on there. Idiot.

I agree, that is a very ignorant guy.

I also agree that that is one angry looking George Washington. They couldn't do a better job than that? The dollar bill George is based on a Gilbert Stuart portrait. The National Gallery has a whole room full of Stuart's Washington's paintings. Why not use one of those as a basis for this coin? This one sucks.

You obviously picked the "Crazy Teller" line at the bank that day. Next time, look for the sign!

Seriously, such a weirdo.

I love the Sacagawea coins -- not sure why we need the new ones?

No opinions on the god thing - it's just American weirdness as far as I'm concerned. If you're wondering about the edge lettering, the explanation is simple - it adds another layer of complexity to deter forgers. All UK £1 and £2 coins have this, though the lettering differs; for example, the £2 coin in my pocket commemorates the 400th anniversary of the 1605 Gunpowder Plot and has the logo "REMEMBER REMEMBER THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER" on the edge.

I haven't seen one of those yet. that is cool.

Though i think that me not seeing one is that shocking as i have being yto the UK only 3 times since 2005 :) and they were usally weekend trips to Belfast.

You want to really get this guy's ignorant goat? Ask him whether or not Angry George Washington was a sissy because he wore a powdered wig. :)

Okay, if a foreigner who's only be to the United States once in their life can remember the words "In God We Trust" being on the coins, why doesn't someone who actually works in a US bank? Is that the kind of people that banks are trusting their money with?

Was Sacagawea even a Christian? Maybe she's smiling because she gets the irony.

D

Funnily enough being a Christian is not an essential requirement for trusting in God.

Although trusting in the issuing bank might be a better line to take when thinking coinage!

The wording being around the edge is actually a security measure - they put them on British one pound coins from their introduction in 1983.

It is supposed to be very much harder to forge than an ordinary milled edging. pictorial proof! The design on pound coins vary year on year, to represent the different countries of the UK - the first ones were 'English' and the words around the edge actually say - DECUS ET TUTAMEN, meaning 'An Ornament and a Safeguard' in latin, presumably to let any passing Romans know why the words are there!

Just to complete 'everything you never needed to know about British coinage' pound coins that represent Scotland have NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT, meaning 'No-one provokes me with impunity', which is the Latin Motto of the Order of the Thistle.

Those minted in 'Welsh years' have PLEIDOL WYF I'M GWLAD, meaning 'True am I to my country', taken from the Welsh National Anthem. (Although it does look as if it means - 'hello, my name is Gladys'....)

'Irish' ones have the same as the 'English' ones.

Note - although the head on the coins is that of the head of the national church - God is not mentioned on any of them!

Ah, memory. He's so proud he noticed it on the edge he's mentally erased it from the face. Personlly, I always like the Sacagawea coins, but I've always been a big fan of hers.

Not that I suppose you care, but in Britain our coins have bits of writing in latin around the edges, like 'standing on the shoulders of giants' and cool stuff like that.

I don't know about 'in god we trust' though, I don't think we do...

In the UK, £1 and £2 coins have writing on the edge as a protection against forgery, apparently. That is why UK coins also have sculpted edges - previously, people would cut bits off the edge, reducing the amount of metal in the coin. (Though this wouldn't be forgery but theft, I guess...)

And

curiouswombat has already explained this...

OMG, I am such a bad american. I only know "In God We Trust" appears on paper money cause I saw the remake of Miracle on 34th street a bajillion years ago.

Anf go you, research girl!

people like that scare me.

really.

I don't really understand the in god we trust rhetoric concerning old coins, but I'm starting to really like the new placement. I think it's a rather apt metaphor for God. If you really want to find it, it's there, if you don't, it's not to hard to over look it. I think we'll all be better off though if we leave the metaphor at that and refrain from making any spiritual revelation metaphors or similes or even allegories really.

There are two things about this that scare me:
a) That *I* knew about the frakking "In God we trust", without ever holding a dollar, but a bank clerk didn't.

b)The fact that your dollar bills still have the all-seeing eye on a pyramid on it.

Washington angry? hmm, Yeah I can see that, but mostly I'm reminded of the dentistry of the time. Probably because I got an appointment next week.

Something I just learned today. Evidently, some of the new coins got out without the "In God We Trust" engraved on the edge. They talk about it here. Maybe that's what the guy was told about and, being crazy, he misunderstood.

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Is it me? Or are some people insane?

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because it has "In God We Trust" on it

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metaphorical

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