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Speechless...
I have no doubt that Michael Moore is full of himself, a blowhard, an annoying thorn, a clown, an ass, and sometimes a fool.
But he is, most of all, a magnificent creature.
If he weren't real, we'd have to create him.
For the record, I by and large sympathize with Michael Moore's politics, but I'll also be the first to admit that sometimes I wish we weren't on the same "YAY! Working Class!" side. He's a gadfly, to be sure. Sometimes he makes mountains out of molehills. Sometimes I can't figure out his point.
But I've followed his career starting with Roger & Me, through The Awful Truth on Bravo, through Bowling for Columbine (not his best work), and now this.
Short review: Amazing film. An astounding piece of propaganda that will be studied for years to come right next to Triumph of the Will.
Michael Moore is not so much for Kerry as he is against Bush. His stated intention has always been that he hopes this film is instrumental in getting Bush tossed out on his ear. To that end, the DVD will be released in September with hours of additional footage that didn't make it into the film.
What is most especially clear in the film is that Moore's been gunning for GeeDubbya for four years since Florida debacle.
And the killer is: the Bushiviks in power have given Michael Moore all the rope he needs to hang 'em all in this film.
Getting into Fahrenheit 9/11 yesterday proved impossible since all shows in two theaters were sold out from the get-go. I did stick around with coffee to watch people leave and gauge reaction.
There's nothing more frightening than seeing a cross-section of people: from disreputable liberals, senior citizens, high school students with parents, and people who look like they should be members in good standing with the Republican Party walking out of a theater with that grim look of blood in their eyes.
Someone somewhere is going to pay and pay big.
I'm just glad it's not me.
Anyway, I decided to haul my ass to the 10:45 a.m. showing figuring I'd get in, no problem.
I had to stand in line.
People in front of me were buying 16 tickets, 30 tickets, 20 tickets (no shit!) for later shows.
Hell, the 10:45 a.m. show was almost sold out by the time the film started.
As for that R rating? Heh. Parents were bringing their kids into the film. Whole fucking families were camping out in the lobby when I left.
I chatted with the exhausted concession stand employees and they were already wild-eyed at the number of people coming in to see a morning showing. According to them, almost all showings were sold out yesterday. The end of every showing ends with rousing applause and sometimes standing ovations.
They had to add an 11:00 pm showing for the duration.
As one girl put it, "We didn't even have to do that for The Piano when it won Oscars."
Her boss added, "And we're a small theater (the West Newton Cinema) and this is happening to us. I gotta wonder what Chestnut Hill (the AMC theater a few miles away) is going through."
Like I said, the 10:45 a.m. showing wasn't sold out, but the theater was full. Mostly adults, a smattering of high schoolers and junior high schoolers. Some of the "regular" senior citizens were overheard (by me) remarking that they'd never seen the theater this full on a Saturday morning showing.
It was a pretty good cross-section, pretty much like Friday night.
Anyway, for a detailed review, check out behind the LJ cut.
As I pointed out above, Fahrenheit 9/11 is a propaganda piece. A well-researched, carefully fact-checked movie, yes. But still propaganda. However, no one can accuse Moore of lying or false advertising. He's said that's the movie's point: to get you pissed off at the current administration. And, like any other Moore movie, you go in knowing his biases.
About 90% of the film consists of facts I already knew. Hell, anyone who's read the papers for 3-and-a-half years should probably know this stuff. This is the first time that it's been gathered in one spot for a damning 2 hours and 5 minutes.
Side note: One of my favorite segments in the film is a little old lady in a retirement home ranting that Halliburton has won yet another contract and the no one is doing anything about it. Word up: when little old ladies smell the bullshit and are ranting to their friends over a friendly card game, you know there's trouble a-brewin' for Bush. I'm pretty sure the Medicare situation ain't winning him friends in the AARP set.
Because I was aware of Moore's biases, I went in keeping in mind what I knew and I didn't see anything that could be termed an outrageous claim. If anything, Moore went a little easy on Bush. He certainly could've made more claims than he did, but I have a feeling that he was sticking strictly with what he could proove using major news sources. A casual search on Google would certainly get you an armload of cites that would back up the claims Moore makes in this movie. This is probably a smart move on his part.
In addition, Moore's critics are going to be hard-pressed to call Moore unpatriotic. If anything, he goes out of his way to give soldiers currently in Iraq, soldiers going through the VA system, and grieving families (I'll get to that in a minute) their voice. He further points out that many of these soliders are either working class or lower economic strata. If anything, this one element of the movie gives it a certain bullet-proof aura by underscoring that his criticism of the regime and the war in no way extends to the people who are getting shot at. If anything, we are asked to spare some sympathy for these people who got stuck in the middle.
Another smart thing Moore did is limit himself (mostly) to voice-overs. He's onscreen three times and only pulls one lame-ass stunt. The first onscreen is an interview across the street from the Saudi embassy that earns him a visit from uniformed Secret Service asking him politely what he's doing. They don't shoo him away and in fact the Secret Service guy seems distinctly amused by Moore's presence.
The lame-ass stunt was hiring an ice cream truck to drive around the capitol building so he could read the odious and Orwellian Patriot Act over the loudspeaker.
The third onscreen, which occurs near the end of the film, is trying to convince Congress people to get their kids to enlist in the military (he notes that only one rep has a kid serving in Iraq). A lot of them run so fast from the idea that it would make your head spin.
The limit on Moore's trademark shenanigans make it a stronger film overall.
If anything, this film most definitely deserved the Palm d'Or, not for its content, but because it is masterfully put together. The editing is breakneck amazing, the musical cues can make you laugh: I especially loved the Cocaine riff that plays as Moore's camera lovingingly lingers over Bush's military record and the Theme from the Greatest American Hero during the unfortunate Bush-lands-a-plane-and-declares-victory-in-Iraq press conference just before things really went to hell. The use of archival footage from multiple sources is artfully used. The pacing makes the two-plus hours fly by. Without a doubt, this is a high-water mark for Moore and he'll be hard-pressed to top it.
The film starts before 9/11 with the Florida recount. The most astounding segment in this part of the film is seeing Al Gore preside over Congress as it certifies the election for Bush. Representative after representative comes to the podium to protest, holding petitions from constiuents, calling Gore "Mr. President." But, because they aren't able to get a single senator to sign on to their protests (they only needed one!) Gore has to gavel them into order and remind them of the rules: they can't protest unless one Senator backs them. It's no wonder Gore is a poltical bitterista: his own party didn't have the balls to even back protests in Congress.
Another segment that has everyone talking is the My Pet Goat segment. It is devastating and I almost felt sorry for Bush as he sat in the classroom with a vacant "Oh Shit!" look on his face. My sympathy isn't really up there for Bush simply because he was told about the first strike against the Twin Towers before he entered the classroom and he went in anyway. He was told about the second strike while in the classroom and sat there another seven minutes. We now know, thanks to the 9/11 Commission and Richard Clarke's book, that there was confusion and chaos while people were feverishly working out what was going on. While it's hard to see what Bush could've done, maybe he should've excused himself from the photo-op to at least get in contact with the White House.
This segment is immediately followed by what I call a master-stroke of filmmaking on Moore's part: that now-famous two minutes of complete darkness while only the audio of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers with sounds of buildings crumbling and panicked people screaming. When the picture turned back on, all we saw were reactions of people in the street as they stare at the horror unfolding before their eyes and paper fluttering down around them. New Yorkers were sobbing, holding each other, collapsed on the ground right where they were. This segment as we watched the horror reflected in people we could recognize as real people had the audience around me (and me) sobbing in their seats.
Right about there, you knew this wasn't gonna be the light-hearted romp like Roger & Me, it wasn't going to be prankish like The Awful Truth, and it was going to lack the sometimes hysterical polemic that governed Bowling for Columbine.
I've heard critics say that Moore was trying to "have it both ways" in the movie, by claiming we shouldn't be in Iraq to begin with and that we didn't have enough troops there.
That's not exactly true.
Moore's point was that we didn't send enough troops to Afganistan and that we shouldn't be in Iraq at all. As one person in the film pointed out: New York City has more police officers than Afganistan had soldiers looking for Osama bin Laden. Moore's other point was that for an administration that was hell-bent on "pacifying" Iraq, they didn't actually think about the logistics of what it would take to occupy a hostile country full of people who don't want us there.
As an ex-reporter, I was especially discomforted as Moore shows with some masterful cuts the cheerleading section made up of the American media. It seems like not one person in any major news network made any attempt to look at this thing with a smidgeon of objectivity. (cue Dan Rather's comment: "When my country's at war, there's only one side to be on." Geee, thanks Dan!) The sad thing is, this is probably why Moore was able to go relatively easy on GeeDubbya: our fourth estate hasn't really been doing its fucking job. By comparison, Moore's waving a bloody knife on the steps of the capitol even though he's not using anything anyone could call obscure as a source.
The strength of the film is giving the soldiers a voice. One soldier points out that he earns $2,000 a month while the Halliburtan-hired truck drivers earn $8,000 to $10,000 a month. (Direct quote from soldier: "There is something wrong with that.") Soldiers who are at first all "boo-yah!" at the beginning followed by soldiers who've seen their tours extended again and again as it sinks in what war and fighting for your life actually means.
Yes, there are images of dead and injured Iraqi children. And yes, thre are some quick shots of Iraqi prisoners being belittled by troops. The one segment that causes a chill up your spine is when an older, grieving woman whose relatives are dying around her thanks to the bombings beats her breasts and begs Allah to alternatively protect her and her family, rain down revenge on the people destroying her life, and asks him where the the hell he is while his people are dying. It's hard to watch and it leaves you squirming in your seat.
The most powerful part of the film is in the last third when it focuses on the soldiers and their families. There are some uncomfortable moments as soldiers describe the music they play while shooting, the treatment of some prisoners (although nothing nearly as bad as we've seen out of Abu Gharib), the midnight search of a family's house while the occupants cringe and cry and beg to know what their son/brother did wrong, the sometimes brutal attitude of the soldiers. These negative moments are carefully balanced: one soldier who demands Rumsfeld's resignation, one soldier who says that when you kill someone you loose part of your soul, another who points out that this ain't Playstation time because there are real consequences to pulling the trigger, the soldier above who is most definitely underpaid, and the officer who accompanies Moore in his "capitol recruitment drive" who says that after one tour in Iraq, he'd rather face courtmarshall than go back.
It is further balanced by interviews with the still snapshot of flag-drapped coffins, families burying their dead in Arlington, and permanently wounded and scared soldiers struggling through the VA system. Moore artfully points out that the sacrifices of these men and women are being swept under the rug by the media and are forgotten by the current administration as it cuts VA benefits and pay for soldiers.
But the crowning achievement, and the bookend to our grieving Iraqi woman is Flint resident Lila Lipscomb. I was well-aware of this segment before I walked into the movie but absolutely nothing can prepare you for the power of this segment. I've read accusations that Moore "bullied" Lipscomb on camera. Bullshit. At no point did I get the feeling she was pushed or pressured. Without a doubt she volunteered all the way.
Lipscomb's family is full of military people and she considers herself a conservative Democarat and "backbone" of America. She works as an executive assistant at a social services agency and between herself and her husband, she can barely make ends meet. She's had a daughter in Operation Desert Storm and her son was killed April 2 when his Blackhawk helicopter went down. When we first meet her, she explains that she'd always steered her children to a military career to help them pay for college, so this is a case of a very patriotic woman who felt she was doing her duty.
However, when she read her son's final letter, a letter that was distinctly anti-Bush and openly questioning of why the hell he was in Iraq, once again the audience (and me) collapsed into sobs as she slowly crumbled in front of the camera. Her quiet pride in her son and the pain of the loss is so raw and visceral that it's painful to watch. Her husband showed a real generosity of spirit by saying that yes, bad for their family, but he really feels sorry for the families who are going through what their family went through in April.
The real stake to the heart is when Lipscomb is in Washington DC for a conference and calls Moore to accompany her to the White House. Watching this woman in her not-very-expensive clothing nearly collapse in tears and heartbreak on Pennsylvania Avenue is heart-wrenching in the extreme. It's a perfect bookend in a way: She got the pox on all our houses for us and, Moore seems to say, she's throwing it right where it belongs: on the front lawn of the White House.
There are a million moments in this movie that are disturbing, disheartening, and sad. I've skipped over a lot of it because, hey, not a professional reviewer here. But feel free to toss me questions.
The film definitely makes you laugh uproarously. It makes you weep uncontrollably. I can only say: go and see it for yourself and make up your own mind. I can't stress that enough.
And yes, there was applause at the end of my showing.
But he is, most of all, a magnificent creature.
If he weren't real, we'd have to create him.
For the record, I by and large sympathize with Michael Moore's politics, but I'll also be the first to admit that sometimes I wish we weren't on the same "YAY! Working Class!" side. He's a gadfly, to be sure. Sometimes he makes mountains out of molehills. Sometimes I can't figure out his point.
But I've followed his career starting with Roger & Me, through The Awful Truth on Bravo, through Bowling for Columbine (not his best work), and now this.
Short review: Amazing film. An astounding piece of propaganda that will be studied for years to come right next to Triumph of the Will.
Michael Moore is not so much for Kerry as he is against Bush. His stated intention has always been that he hopes this film is instrumental in getting Bush tossed out on his ear. To that end, the DVD will be released in September with hours of additional footage that didn't make it into the film.
What is most especially clear in the film is that Moore's been gunning for GeeDubbya for four years since Florida debacle.
And the killer is: the Bushiviks in power have given Michael Moore all the rope he needs to hang 'em all in this film.
Getting into Fahrenheit 9/11 yesterday proved impossible since all shows in two theaters were sold out from the get-go. I did stick around with coffee to watch people leave and gauge reaction.
There's nothing more frightening than seeing a cross-section of people: from disreputable liberals, senior citizens, high school students with parents, and people who look like they should be members in good standing with the Republican Party walking out of a theater with that grim look of blood in their eyes.
Someone somewhere is going to pay and pay big.
I'm just glad it's not me.
Anyway, I decided to haul my ass to the 10:45 a.m. showing figuring I'd get in, no problem.
I had to stand in line.
People in front of me were buying 16 tickets, 30 tickets, 20 tickets (no shit!) for later shows.
Hell, the 10:45 a.m. show was almost sold out by the time the film started.
As for that R rating? Heh. Parents were bringing their kids into the film. Whole fucking families were camping out in the lobby when I left.
I chatted with the exhausted concession stand employees and they were already wild-eyed at the number of people coming in to see a morning showing. According to them, almost all showings were sold out yesterday. The end of every showing ends with rousing applause and sometimes standing ovations.
They had to add an 11:00 pm showing for the duration.
As one girl put it, "We didn't even have to do that for The Piano when it won Oscars."
Her boss added, "And we're a small theater (the West Newton Cinema) and this is happening to us. I gotta wonder what Chestnut Hill (the AMC theater a few miles away) is going through."
Like I said, the 10:45 a.m. showing wasn't sold out, but the theater was full. Mostly adults, a smattering of high schoolers and junior high schoolers. Some of the "regular" senior citizens were overheard (by me) remarking that they'd never seen the theater this full on a Saturday morning showing.
It was a pretty good cross-section, pretty much like Friday night.
Anyway, for a detailed review, check out behind the LJ cut.
As I pointed out above, Fahrenheit 9/11 is a propaganda piece. A well-researched, carefully fact-checked movie, yes. But still propaganda. However, no one can accuse Moore of lying or false advertising. He's said that's the movie's point: to get you pissed off at the current administration. And, like any other Moore movie, you go in knowing his biases.
About 90% of the film consists of facts I already knew. Hell, anyone who's read the papers for 3-and-a-half years should probably know this stuff. This is the first time that it's been gathered in one spot for a damning 2 hours and 5 minutes.
Side note: One of my favorite segments in the film is a little old lady in a retirement home ranting that Halliburton has won yet another contract and the no one is doing anything about it. Word up: when little old ladies smell the bullshit and are ranting to their friends over a friendly card game, you know there's trouble a-brewin' for Bush. I'm pretty sure the Medicare situation ain't winning him friends in the AARP set.
Because I was aware of Moore's biases, I went in keeping in mind what I knew and I didn't see anything that could be termed an outrageous claim. If anything, Moore went a little easy on Bush. He certainly could've made more claims than he did, but I have a feeling that he was sticking strictly with what he could proove using major news sources. A casual search on Google would certainly get you an armload of cites that would back up the claims Moore makes in this movie. This is probably a smart move on his part.
In addition, Moore's critics are going to be hard-pressed to call Moore unpatriotic. If anything, he goes out of his way to give soldiers currently in Iraq, soldiers going through the VA system, and grieving families (I'll get to that in a minute) their voice. He further points out that many of these soliders are either working class or lower economic strata. If anything, this one element of the movie gives it a certain bullet-proof aura by underscoring that his criticism of the regime and the war in no way extends to the people who are getting shot at. If anything, we are asked to spare some sympathy for these people who got stuck in the middle.
Another smart thing Moore did is limit himself (mostly) to voice-overs. He's onscreen three times and only pulls one lame-ass stunt. The first onscreen is an interview across the street from the Saudi embassy that earns him a visit from uniformed Secret Service asking him politely what he's doing. They don't shoo him away and in fact the Secret Service guy seems distinctly amused by Moore's presence.
The lame-ass stunt was hiring an ice cream truck to drive around the capitol building so he could read the odious and Orwellian Patriot Act over the loudspeaker.
The third onscreen, which occurs near the end of the film, is trying to convince Congress people to get their kids to enlist in the military (he notes that only one rep has a kid serving in Iraq). A lot of them run so fast from the idea that it would make your head spin.
The limit on Moore's trademark shenanigans make it a stronger film overall.
If anything, this film most definitely deserved the Palm d'Or, not for its content, but because it is masterfully put together. The editing is breakneck amazing, the musical cues can make you laugh: I especially loved the Cocaine riff that plays as Moore's camera lovingingly lingers over Bush's military record and the Theme from the Greatest American Hero during the unfortunate Bush-lands-a-plane-and-declares-victory-in-Iraq press conference just before things really went to hell. The use of archival footage from multiple sources is artfully used. The pacing makes the two-plus hours fly by. Without a doubt, this is a high-water mark for Moore and he'll be hard-pressed to top it.
The film starts before 9/11 with the Florida recount. The most astounding segment in this part of the film is seeing Al Gore preside over Congress as it certifies the election for Bush. Representative after representative comes to the podium to protest, holding petitions from constiuents, calling Gore "Mr. President." But, because they aren't able to get a single senator to sign on to their protests (they only needed one!) Gore has to gavel them into order and remind them of the rules: they can't protest unless one Senator backs them. It's no wonder Gore is a poltical bitterista: his own party didn't have the balls to even back protests in Congress.
Another segment that has everyone talking is the My Pet Goat segment. It is devastating and I almost felt sorry for Bush as he sat in the classroom with a vacant "Oh Shit!" look on his face. My sympathy isn't really up there for Bush simply because he was told about the first strike against the Twin Towers before he entered the classroom and he went in anyway. He was told about the second strike while in the classroom and sat there another seven minutes. We now know, thanks to the 9/11 Commission and Richard Clarke's book, that there was confusion and chaos while people were feverishly working out what was going on. While it's hard to see what Bush could've done, maybe he should've excused himself from the photo-op to at least get in contact with the White House.
This segment is immediately followed by what I call a master-stroke of filmmaking on Moore's part: that now-famous two minutes of complete darkness while only the audio of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers with sounds of buildings crumbling and panicked people screaming. When the picture turned back on, all we saw were reactions of people in the street as they stare at the horror unfolding before their eyes and paper fluttering down around them. New Yorkers were sobbing, holding each other, collapsed on the ground right where they were. This segment as we watched the horror reflected in people we could recognize as real people had the audience around me (and me) sobbing in their seats.
Right about there, you knew this wasn't gonna be the light-hearted romp like Roger & Me, it wasn't going to be prankish like The Awful Truth, and it was going to lack the sometimes hysterical polemic that governed Bowling for Columbine.
I've heard critics say that Moore was trying to "have it both ways" in the movie, by claiming we shouldn't be in Iraq to begin with and that we didn't have enough troops there.
That's not exactly true.
Moore's point was that we didn't send enough troops to Afganistan and that we shouldn't be in Iraq at all. As one person in the film pointed out: New York City has more police officers than Afganistan had soldiers looking for Osama bin Laden. Moore's other point was that for an administration that was hell-bent on "pacifying" Iraq, they didn't actually think about the logistics of what it would take to occupy a hostile country full of people who don't want us there.
As an ex-reporter, I was especially discomforted as Moore shows with some masterful cuts the cheerleading section made up of the American media. It seems like not one person in any major news network made any attempt to look at this thing with a smidgeon of objectivity. (cue Dan Rather's comment: "When my country's at war, there's only one side to be on." Geee, thanks Dan!) The sad thing is, this is probably why Moore was able to go relatively easy on GeeDubbya: our fourth estate hasn't really been doing its fucking job. By comparison, Moore's waving a bloody knife on the steps of the capitol even though he's not using anything anyone could call obscure as a source.
The strength of the film is giving the soldiers a voice. One soldier points out that he earns $2,000 a month while the Halliburtan-hired truck drivers earn $8,000 to $10,000 a month. (Direct quote from soldier: "There is something wrong with that.") Soldiers who are at first all "boo-yah!" at the beginning followed by soldiers who've seen their tours extended again and again as it sinks in what war and fighting for your life actually means.
Yes, there are images of dead and injured Iraqi children. And yes, thre are some quick shots of Iraqi prisoners being belittled by troops. The one segment that causes a chill up your spine is when an older, grieving woman whose relatives are dying around her thanks to the bombings beats her breasts and begs Allah to alternatively protect her and her family, rain down revenge on the people destroying her life, and asks him where the the hell he is while his people are dying. It's hard to watch and it leaves you squirming in your seat.
The most powerful part of the film is in the last third when it focuses on the soldiers and their families. There are some uncomfortable moments as soldiers describe the music they play while shooting, the treatment of some prisoners (although nothing nearly as bad as we've seen out of Abu Gharib), the midnight search of a family's house while the occupants cringe and cry and beg to know what their son/brother did wrong, the sometimes brutal attitude of the soldiers. These negative moments are carefully balanced: one soldier who demands Rumsfeld's resignation, one soldier who says that when you kill someone you loose part of your soul, another who points out that this ain't Playstation time because there are real consequences to pulling the trigger, the soldier above who is most definitely underpaid, and the officer who accompanies Moore in his "capitol recruitment drive" who says that after one tour in Iraq, he'd rather face courtmarshall than go back.
It is further balanced by interviews with the still snapshot of flag-drapped coffins, families burying their dead in Arlington, and permanently wounded and scared soldiers struggling through the VA system. Moore artfully points out that the sacrifices of these men and women are being swept under the rug by the media and are forgotten by the current administration as it cuts VA benefits and pay for soldiers.
But the crowning achievement, and the bookend to our grieving Iraqi woman is Flint resident Lila Lipscomb. I was well-aware of this segment before I walked into the movie but absolutely nothing can prepare you for the power of this segment. I've read accusations that Moore "bullied" Lipscomb on camera. Bullshit. At no point did I get the feeling she was pushed or pressured. Without a doubt she volunteered all the way.
Lipscomb's family is full of military people and she considers herself a conservative Democarat and "backbone" of America. She works as an executive assistant at a social services agency and between herself and her husband, she can barely make ends meet. She's had a daughter in Operation Desert Storm and her son was killed April 2 when his Blackhawk helicopter went down. When we first meet her, she explains that she'd always steered her children to a military career to help them pay for college, so this is a case of a very patriotic woman who felt she was doing her duty.
However, when she read her son's final letter, a letter that was distinctly anti-Bush and openly questioning of why the hell he was in Iraq, once again the audience (and me) collapsed into sobs as she slowly crumbled in front of the camera. Her quiet pride in her son and the pain of the loss is so raw and visceral that it's painful to watch. Her husband showed a real generosity of spirit by saying that yes, bad for their family, but he really feels sorry for the families who are going through what their family went through in April.
The real stake to the heart is when Lipscomb is in Washington DC for a conference and calls Moore to accompany her to the White House. Watching this woman in her not-very-expensive clothing nearly collapse in tears and heartbreak on Pennsylvania Avenue is heart-wrenching in the extreme. It's a perfect bookend in a way: She got the pox on all our houses for us and, Moore seems to say, she's throwing it right where it belongs: on the front lawn of the White House.
There are a million moments in this movie that are disturbing, disheartening, and sad. I've skipped over a lot of it because, hey, not a professional reviewer here. But feel free to toss me questions.
The film definitely makes you laugh uproarously. It makes you weep uncontrollably. I can only say: go and see it for yourself and make up your own mind. I can't stress that enough.
And yes, there was applause at the end of my showing.
no subject
*Hugs*
no subject
Thank you. I know before the film was released there was a certain amount of (mis)information about what was actually said and done in the film, so I certainly had my ears and eyes peeled to see if any of it matched up. By and large, it really was misinformation.
One part that seems to have the most complaints is the amount of time Moore spends on the Saudi-Bush-bin Laden connection, but again, he's not using anything that isn't in the public record. Everything he uses is public information or can be purchased at the local bookstore in Against All Enemies or House of Bush, House of Saud. A lot of people don't see the point of this segment. It strikes me he was again "book-ending" an issue. The Saudi-Bush-bin Laden connection segment was to match up with a segment near the end where you had all these companies attending a conference on how to make money in Iraq and promising big profits. I have to admit, I knew some of this, but certainly not all of it, so it's worth doing a little digging on my own here.
I enjoyed the movie immensely (even if the thought of Mrs. Lipscomb is still getting me teary-eyed a mere seven hours after seeing it) and thought Moore did a very credible job arguing his point and backing his facts. Certainly the fact-checkers are prominently featured in the credits and Harvey Weinstein has said that his lawyers have gone over the film with a fine-toothed comb.
*grins* Thanks for wading through the post. I know it's really freakin' long...
no subject
Could have fooled me - what an excellent review. Very thorough & detailed. I've avoided reading reviews of the movie, but I'm glad I read yours. I think your background in reporting is an advantage.
I was planning in seeing it Wednesday - I'll make sure to buy my tickets early!
no subject
There are projections that it'll make more than $16 million this weekend, not bad for a film showing in only 868 theaters. White Chicks, the closest contender is estimated that it'll take in approximately $12 million with 2,726 theaters showing it.
So the per-screen take is pretty astonishing.
Waiting until mid-week is probably your best bet to see it. I know my brother is waiting until next weekend to see it in hopes the Spiderman 2 movie will result in some empty seats.
no subject
It is about class, but then in my blue-collar eyes it's always about class. I was one of those kids who wanted to sign up because it would give me a job and a college education - and this was back in the 70s. Some things never change. (For the record, I left the recruitment office without signing; it was a different time and women didn't get the same opportunities as men back then. I often wonder what my life would have been like if I had joined up.)
I loved the retirees ranting about Halliburton :) I have the feeling that woman had walked a few picket lines in her time, in solidarity if nothing else.
I wonder how this will play in middle America? We here in MA are almost predisposed to go see it; I wonder if the reverse is true out there in Republican territory?
For me - I'm thankful that at last there is a counter to the neocons' strategy of "say it loud and often until they believe it." Of course, it will only work if people actually go see the movie; people who aren't us.
Finally - you're a Joss fan! And a hell of a writer. And a MA resident. May I friend you?
no subject
Actually, I saw a post of yours waaaay back and saw you were from Worcester (I grew up there). I think I came across your post by checking out somene's FList. This particular post had you complaining about traffic on 290 (I soooooooo understand), so I friended you. *heeee!*
It was a geographic thing. :-)
no subject
Geographical friending - I think we may start a trend! That 290/495 interchange is a bit of nightmare, and I cannot begin to tell you how happy I am not to have to face it every day now.
Anyway, you are now friended, and thanks :) Nice to meet you, Liz.
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As speaking as a vaugly Mid-Westerner, I don't think people here on average will go see it. It's not the amount of republicans around here that will prevent it, though that might have somthing to do with it. It's the small run. If I was to go see the film were I live in Indiana, I'd have to drive at least an hour. The next complex showing it is about two hours away in Kentucky.
While people will drive an hour and more to do shoping, (I did it today in fact) most people (that I know anyway) will not drive an hour or more to go see a movie. Or if they do, they really want to see the movie.
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Well, down here in Virginia, I saw it on opening night. The theater was packed to the brim, and they were showing it on two screens simultaneously. And this state is very Republican (though the Kerry campaign has designated us pink, and not red. Yay for small favors... if Virginia goes gray, consider the election over).
Anyway. It was well received here so far as I could tell. There were definitely applause. And, in heartening news, people my age (read: 18-24) were out in good numbers.
And that's my $0.02
-Mark
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And I thank you for adding it :) It's great to hear that it was well-received in VA, which is, indeed seen as a red state.
I think it's funny that the Kerrys have designated you guys as "pink" since that association for me harkens back to 1) pinko commies (ah, the '60s, how I miss you), and 2) gay rights. Cracks me up.
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It was definitely #1 on Friday: cite
A round up of critical reviews can be found here: cite
If something is a proven money-maker, you can almost bet that more theaters and chains are gonna want a chance to show it.
Plus, Moore has said that he plans to release an extended DVD of the movie in September, whether it's still showing in theaters or not. So, definitely by the November election the movie will be easily accessible to people who want to see it.
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(Anonymous) 2004-06-27 09:09 pm (UTC)(link)Think of it this way: I live in a small town whose two-screen theatre will open every film that might be seen as even vaguely family/kid-friendly in its first weekend. The state-wide-distributed newspaper known as the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette is anything but. And the only radio morning show I listen to on my way home from work are, as entertaining as I find them, dedicatedly anti-Michael Moore and have been vilifying Moore and his film since before it opened this weekend (they particularly dislike the fact that he won an Oscar for "Bowling for Columbine" and the speech he made that night). That it's opened out here in the rice paddies in the first place is something of a shock to me. (This part of the state is known largely for its agriculture.)
Now that it's opened this weekend in the number one slot, I'm curious what happens next (although I'm sure it'll get swallowed up by the publicity surrounding the opening of "Spider-Man 2" this Wednesday).
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I'm sure that Spidey is going to bury everything else at the box office for the next couple weeks. The fan boys (and girls) are very psyched for the opening.
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Just out of curiosity, did you get an anti-Kerry vibe out of the whole thing? Since I worry the whole anti-Bush vibe might give undecided individuals that impression. I fear 'Down with the establishment! Yay, Nader!' backlash.
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And now I'll stop hijacking Liz's journal.
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To answer the question, Kerry is persona non grata in the film, so there's nothing in it that is for or against Kerry.
The criticism for the Dems (and I know Moore has been pretty open about disliking both parties) is the same one he has for the media: they pretty much stood passively by while they let the administration roll over them, bully them, or otherwise failed to live up to their responsibility as an opposition party. The Dems are painted in a bad light for not at least fighting harder over the recout and for not putting up more of a fight with the Patriot Act.
There are some individual Dems that you can see Moore does like:
*Rep. Jim McDermott (D-Wash), a trained psychiatrist who discusses why (in his opinion) the Patriot Act passed so easily and how the "terrorist alert system" accompanied by vague warnings is a pretty useless tool except for making people afraid.
*Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich), who also shows insight into why the Patriot Act passed (he's in the previews saying, "Sit down son...")
*The assorted reps who stood up during the certification for the 2000 election protesting that their constituents were unfairly struck from the roles and that their people were undercounted.
Interestingly enough, Al Gore does come across as sympathetic. During the Florida recount debacle he didn't try to twist the certification protests to his favor and insisted everyone stick to the rules. But that's more the situation than any intent on Moore's part.
I highly doubt that you're going to get "Nader Yay!" leaving the movie. You're more likely to get "Bush must go!" leaving the movie.
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I'd still say going with someone who's got an opposite view is a good idea, if only so you can have a debate after the film.
Still, going alone shouldn't be a problem. The theaters are packed and I definitely saw a lot of singles like myself taking in the flick.
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One thing I must say. I respect Bush as a guy who stands up for what he believes in and doen't back down from that. His actions may bristle with my views, but at least I know he will not be switching sides to fill a political agenda. He is who he says he is.
Sadly, I will have to vote for him this year. Some things happening in our government are screwy and I disagree with what is going on at times, but I hate the idea of a regime change n the middle of this shitstorm even more. With the significantly escalated terrorist threat and us being heavily involved over in Iraq and Afghanistan, a 'different viewpoint' or 'plan of action' would be the greater of two evils. At least, that is my opinion. Also, certain groups may view Bush losing the election as America backing down from its hard stance and they would see it as a 'victory'.
I may hate the bastard on purely Religious and social issues and I may dislike some of the things his regime is doing, but I would rather weather another four years of him now than weather who-knows-how-many-years of blowback if the regime that replaces him yanks things back in the opposite direction.
FYI, Libertarian here.
Plok
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No worries. I have no problems with alternative takes in my corner of LJ. I certainly find differing points of view (politely worded) a much more useful tool of expanding my own horizons.
Just so you know I'm being completely selfish about the ideal. ;)
Certainly your opinion is as valid as my own.
If you want a good back-and-forth debate, the Straight Dope Message Boards have some good points (pro and con) on the movie. Right now, there are debates raging in the "Great Debates," "Cafe Society," and "BBQ Pit" threads. All are worth checking out.
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I'm kind of waiting to speak with my friends on the other side of the aisle to see it before they comment. Granted, my closest Republican friend is a McCain staffer and doesn't care for the administration all that much.
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I will try to go see it, although it is rare for me to get the chance to go see a movie that isn't made by Disney, Pixar or, occasionally, Dreamworks.
Thanks.
Micael Moore, Traitor.
(Anonymous) 2004-06-28 08:21 am (UTC)(link)Mark Haslam
markhaslam@hotmail.com
(I've included my email so that others may comment. I will not hide behind anonymity nor bodyguards as Mr. Moore did at his "film"'s debut)
Re: Micael Moore, Traitor.
1) Have you seen any of Michael Moore's films?
2) Have you seen this particular film?
3) If you have seen the film, can you please specifically state the lies and/or traitorous acts/statements?
If you haven't seen the film, maybe you should before you start slinging words like "traitor" at anyone. Once you've seen it, please feel free to come back and explain just how Michael Moore or the film is traitorous.
I anxiously wait for your reply.
As you will note above, people who've posted here are not exactly drooling Michael Moore fans. We all know very well that he is nothing more than an editorial cartoonist. We can all pretty much agree that this is an anti-Bush film.
However, I'm still waiting to hear rational justification for:
1)Ignoring urgent warnings from Clinton's team, the CIA, Richard A. Clarke, among others, that Osama bin Laden's men were planning to hijack planes and perform acts of terrorism before September 11 happened.
2) Not sending nearly enough troops into Afghanistan to actually get the guy we are accusing of masterminding the attacks
3) Out-and-out *lying* about WMD in Iraq and hinting that Unca Saddam's got 'em pointed right at us
4) Out-and-out *lying* about a connection between Osama bin Laden and Saddam, leaving far too many people believing that Saddam had a hand in 9/11.
These are not claims that are just made in Michael Moore's film, but stories have been covered extensively in just about every media outlet (except for maybe FOXNews) from the pissant local paper to the Wall Street Journal. This is stuff that's coming right out of the Congressional 9/11 Commission.
I mean, Jesus, The Daily Show with John Stewart is covering this to death. AND IT'S A COMEDY SHOW!
So far, Moore's parroting all this proof that's already out there. None of this stuff is from wacka-loon territory.
Just to repeat: At least 90 percent of the movie has already been reported all over hell and beyond in mainstream media outlets, books, and government reports.
So, again, I'm rather curious about your accusation of "lying" and "being a traitor."
If you would like to read a good back-and-forth debate on the film, please feel free to click on the links below. All threads found on the Straight Dope Message Board:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261943
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263548
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263534
I think you'll see a prevailing theme: people who've actually seen the film a cognizant that, yes, it is "an opinion piece," however, they certainly agree that Moore's not lying and he cannot be termed as a "traitor" to anything.
As I stress...I anxiously await your reply on this matter, once you've actually seen the film and can catalog support for your accusations.
Re: Micael Moore, Traitor.
(Anonymous) 2004-07-09 12:28 am (UTC)(link)I refer you to 9-11 Commission: Threats and Responses in 2001. (http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf) You will see that rather than ignoring the threat of terrorism there was actually a great deal of work being done on the subject. Additionally you will see that “despite the large number of threats received there were no specifics regarding time, place, method or target. (p. 3)” You will also see statements like “there was no credible evidence of an attack in the United States, Clarke told us. (P. 4)”
I would love to know what you think Bush should have done that he didn’t do? What do you think would have been the domestic and foreign reaction if Bush had invaded Afghanistan in August of 2001? What do you think Michael Moore would have said about Bush claims that the invasion was justified as a pre-emptive measure to prevent large-scale terrorist attacks in the US?
“2) Not sending nearly enough troops into Afghanistan to actually get the guy we are accusing of masterminding the attacks.”
How many troops would it take to ‘get the guy’ and how do you know?
The logistics of supporting troops in a land-locked country surrounded by other countries who are uncertain allies (Pakistan) or outright enemies (Iran) of the US is such that I am happy that we don’t have a large percentage of our military in Afghanistan.
I’m an economist, so whenever somebody says we should do X I ask what does it cost? Assume OBL is hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan/Pakistan. I doubt we have enough soldiers to definitively search every cave in the Hindu Kush. The cost of sending “enough” troops outweighs the benefit.
“3) Out-and-out *lying* about WMD in Iraq and hinting that Unca Saddam's got 'em pointed right at us”
“Unca Saddam?” Cutesy nicknames don’t enhance your credibility.
Out-and-out lying about WMD? Source please. Please keep in mind that lying involves statements that one thinks are false, the actual truth-value of the statement is irrelevant.
The second part of your claim seems to indicate that you misunderstood the entire debate leading up to the war in Iraq. If you recall, Bush argued that Saddam was attempting to acquire WMD and that 9/11 showed us that we were vulnerable to domestic attacks. Therefore we could not wait until Saddam became an imminent threat; but should launch a pre-emptive war because the cost of a surprise WMD attack was too high.
The thing that has irritated the hell out me about this issue is the way Bush opponents have used the wrong argument against him. Spinsanity discusses the “Imminent Threat” issue here (http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031103.html) and here (http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_03_14_archive.html#107946232045168207). If you really want to attack Bush why not point out how problematic a policy of pre-emptive strike looks in light of the intelligence failures in Iraq.
“4) Out-and-out *lying* about a connection between Osama bin Laden and Saddam, leaving far too many people believing that Saddam had a hand in 9/11.”
As many hundred of people have pointed out the 9/11 Commission describes the connections between AQ and Saddam. Did Saddam help plan or execute the 9/11 attacks? Not as far as I can tell. Did Bush lead people to believe that Saddam was partially responsible for the 9/11 attack? Not as far as I know.
As for Fahrenheit 9/11, I don’t watch Michael Moore films for the same reason I don’t listen to Rush Limbaugh, life’s too short to waste my time on that garbage. But, with that caveat, I direct your attention to Unfairenheit 9/11 (http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/), Christopher Hitchens’ (no right wing stooge, as his obit for Reagan (http://slate.msn.com/id/2101842/) demonstrated) masterful takedown of Moore’s film. Even if you don’t agree with him I recommend it as the best screed I’ve read in years.
lkoow@yahoo.com