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Soooo not a good night last night...
LJ has been the bitch or what for the past few days...
Anyway, doesn't matter as I pretty much have been running crazy, so no time to post or answer all the great FB you've given on Contrite Spirits. I'm going to make a concerted effort to reply to everyone over the weekend, but I think I can see why some people feel the need to "clean the email box" because it gets overwhelming at times.
However, last night? Sucked. The big one.
A friend who I've known for *eeep!* 17 years (How is it possible that I actually have known someone for more than half my life...) called me last minute yesterday to borrow my air bed. Her, her sister, and their two pre-K daughters are going down to Naragansett Beach to camp for a few days. So, no sweat. I run home after work and get it and run up to her house.
Now, I knew something was going down. Her daughter, a usually pretty polite, well-behaved kid, was running absolutely wild. I mean, not her usual high-spiritedness (the kid's a total Sagittarius like me, so pretty much constant scatter-brained busy-ness is part of the package). She's just being out-and-out wild.
So, we get the kid to bed and my friend drops it on me: she and her husband are getting a separation.
*Whua?*
Now, these two have been together for 11 years, and married for six years of that time. They were looking at buying a house seven months ago; they were looking at houses in Maine two months ago.
Out of the blue two weeks ago, he tells her: "I don't love you any more and I want to go for a trial separation. You're not the girl I married."
To which she pointed out: "Ummmm, I've had a kid, given up a job I loved to be a stay-at-home mom, we've lived in four different towns since we got together. And I'm in my late 30s and not in my 20s. You think I've changed? Really? Shocked, I tell you."
Now here's the kicker: He claims that he thought she felt the same way.
Now he's swearing up and down that there isn't another woman. (Which she believes). And there's not another woman on his radar (Which she most definitely does not believe).
Actually, she's kind of hoping that it's another guy, if only because this is familiar territory for her. If it turns out that he's playing for the other team, this would be the third time a guy has left her for another guy. Although 11 years pretty much tells her it's a vain hope.
So, anyway, she's all, "When the hell did this happen?"
He claims that he started having doubts about the marriage within a month of their getting married.
So, let me see: Start having doubts right away, but you stick around for three years, go through hell to conceive your daughter, almost manage to buy a house, and....you always had doubts.
*blinks at that*
To quote Adam Sandler: "Things you should've told me YESTERDAY!"
At the moment, they're still in the same house. Friend insists that her daughter has no clue what's going on except that Daddy and Mommy don't kiss each other goodbye when the other person leaves the house. (Unh, kids have the uncanny ability to pick up when something's wrong, so don't bet on it. I could tell something was up the second I saw the way she was acting.)
Friend is trying to keep Hubby in the apartmnt at least until Labor Day because 1) Boston-area rents suck; 2)Their financial situation sucks more(which is why they weren't able to close on the house they bid on); 3) She wants time to plan so she doesn't land in complete poverty.
Now Hubby, in general, is a good guy, and I honestly think he'll try to do right by his daughter financially speaking. I think he'll make a good go of it for doing his share of daughter visits, but I think that'll last up until he lands a girlfriend. It's not a guy thing, per se, but an absentee parent thing.
The thing I can fault him on is that he's being all vague-y on when he'll be moving out. All she can sense is that he won't be moving out before July 1, but he'll be gone by Labor Day.
Meet the suckiness that is: She's a stay-at-home mom who's working as a part-time waitress. She loves her daughter and all, but when Hubby comes home, he usually takes over the kid-playtime. As she pointed out, not only is she losing his income support (aside from the $150-plus a week the state will make him pay and the health insurance he'll need to cover both of them with), but she's loosing an important helper in taking care of her kid.
Or as she put it: "He gets to walk away practically scot-free and is only required to meet minimum responsibilities that don't actually require him to be here. I get tied to the house 24-7. He can go off and build a new life by pretending to be single. I don't get the same luxury because I have a daughter to take care of."
Ouch. Definitely a fuzzy end of the lollipop feeling there.
So this gets worse:
Thanks spending that started with her insanely expensive wedding and honeymoon and has built up over time, they are more than $40,000 in debt. They separate, they're both going to have to declare bankruptcy.
[Note to self: Parents were married by JP, had 10 people attending wedding, took everyone out to nice dinner after simple ceremony, went to Niagra Falls for honeymoon, bought house less than six months after they got back. Still married 38 years later. Hmmmmm.....if I ever get married, it'll be at a backyard barbeque, everyone will get to wear their comfy clothes--including me--and all the money will go into a food and possibly a DJ. Use money saved on cheap wedding to go to a honeymoon in Greenland on an Outdoor Trekker tour and for downpayment on a house...go me! It sounds like a plan! Now I just need an actual date...]
I give her a hella lot of credit. She's not even pretending thre's a possibility that he's going through a phase. She's assuming that when he walks out the door, he won't be coming back. So, she's researching and already has two plans:
1) Get her Real Estate license and to that end she'll be signing up for classes next week
2) Get all her paperwork in order for food stamps, rental assistance, daycare vouchers, and other welfare benefits so she can finish the little less than two years she needs to get her teaching degree (the state will pay her freight 100%). With her eperience working as a teacher's assistant for special ed, she's hoping she'll be able to get a teaching job in the field two years out, which would then allow her roughly five years to get her Master's degree, again paid for in part by the state.
3) Look for a new apartment. She can't afford to stay where she is. That might mean finding something cheaper in the area (good luck with that) or moving in with her sister who lives west of Rte 495.
So, yeah, she's being remarkably clear-headed about everyone, which leads me to believe that even if she was taken by surprise, some subconcious part of her pretty much knew this was coming. Which is pretty fucking sad all around.
So, anyway, she asked me to at least be civil with the hubby. I merely pointed out that I've known her to date some real assholes (I particularly remember the abusive coke fiend she dated when I first met her) and I've never been nothing but civil. Whatever is going on between her and her husband has nothing to do with me. Period. She wants to vent, she can vent with me, but I ain't volunteering shit. I listen.
Which got me a hug.
Now here's the sad thing: Even he changes his mind after he moves out and asks to come back, she's not sure she'd take him back. Why? Because she's not sure she'd be able to ever trust him again.
Or to put it another way, according to him, he's lied to her for six years. What's to stop him from lying again.
Needless to say, I feel the need for meanness.
I'll be checking out Farenheit 9/11 at the local theater tonight.
Anyway, doesn't matter as I pretty much have been running crazy, so no time to post or answer all the great FB you've given on Contrite Spirits. I'm going to make a concerted effort to reply to everyone over the weekend, but I think I can see why some people feel the need to "clean the email box" because it gets overwhelming at times.
However, last night? Sucked. The big one.
A friend who I've known for *eeep!* 17 years (How is it possible that I actually have known someone for more than half my life...) called me last minute yesterday to borrow my air bed. Her, her sister, and their two pre-K daughters are going down to Naragansett Beach to camp for a few days. So, no sweat. I run home after work and get it and run up to her house.
Now, I knew something was going down. Her daughter, a usually pretty polite, well-behaved kid, was running absolutely wild. I mean, not her usual high-spiritedness (the kid's a total Sagittarius like me, so pretty much constant scatter-brained busy-ness is part of the package). She's just being out-and-out wild.
So, we get the kid to bed and my friend drops it on me: she and her husband are getting a separation.
*Whua?*
Now, these two have been together for 11 years, and married for six years of that time. They were looking at buying a house seven months ago; they were looking at houses in Maine two months ago.
Out of the blue two weeks ago, he tells her: "I don't love you any more and I want to go for a trial separation. You're not the girl I married."
To which she pointed out: "Ummmm, I've had a kid, given up a job I loved to be a stay-at-home mom, we've lived in four different towns since we got together. And I'm in my late 30s and not in my 20s. You think I've changed? Really? Shocked, I tell you."
Now here's the kicker: He claims that he thought she felt the same way.
Now he's swearing up and down that there isn't another woman. (Which she believes). And there's not another woman on his radar (Which she most definitely does not believe).
Actually, she's kind of hoping that it's another guy, if only because this is familiar territory for her. If it turns out that he's playing for the other team, this would be the third time a guy has left her for another guy. Although 11 years pretty much tells her it's a vain hope.
So, anyway, she's all, "When the hell did this happen?"
He claims that he started having doubts about the marriage within a month of their getting married.
So, let me see: Start having doubts right away, but you stick around for three years, go through hell to conceive your daughter, almost manage to buy a house, and....you always had doubts.
*blinks at that*
To quote Adam Sandler: "Things you should've told me YESTERDAY!"
At the moment, they're still in the same house. Friend insists that her daughter has no clue what's going on except that Daddy and Mommy don't kiss each other goodbye when the other person leaves the house. (Unh, kids have the uncanny ability to pick up when something's wrong, so don't bet on it. I could tell something was up the second I saw the way she was acting.)
Friend is trying to keep Hubby in the apartmnt at least until Labor Day because 1) Boston-area rents suck; 2)Their financial situation sucks more(which is why they weren't able to close on the house they bid on); 3) She wants time to plan so she doesn't land in complete poverty.
Now Hubby, in general, is a good guy, and I honestly think he'll try to do right by his daughter financially speaking. I think he'll make a good go of it for doing his share of daughter visits, but I think that'll last up until he lands a girlfriend. It's not a guy thing, per se, but an absentee parent thing.
The thing I can fault him on is that he's being all vague-y on when he'll be moving out. All she can sense is that he won't be moving out before July 1, but he'll be gone by Labor Day.
Meet the suckiness that is: She's a stay-at-home mom who's working as a part-time waitress. She loves her daughter and all, but when Hubby comes home, he usually takes over the kid-playtime. As she pointed out, not only is she losing his income support (aside from the $150-plus a week the state will make him pay and the health insurance he'll need to cover both of them with), but she's loosing an important helper in taking care of her kid.
Or as she put it: "He gets to walk away practically scot-free and is only required to meet minimum responsibilities that don't actually require him to be here. I get tied to the house 24-7. He can go off and build a new life by pretending to be single. I don't get the same luxury because I have a daughter to take care of."
Ouch. Definitely a fuzzy end of the lollipop feeling there.
So this gets worse:
Thanks spending that started with her insanely expensive wedding and honeymoon and has built up over time, they are more than $40,000 in debt. They separate, they're both going to have to declare bankruptcy.
[Note to self: Parents were married by JP, had 10 people attending wedding, took everyone out to nice dinner after simple ceremony, went to Niagra Falls for honeymoon, bought house less than six months after they got back. Still married 38 years later. Hmmmmm.....if I ever get married, it'll be at a backyard barbeque, everyone will get to wear their comfy clothes--including me--and all the money will go into a food and possibly a DJ. Use money saved on cheap wedding to go to a honeymoon in Greenland on an Outdoor Trekker tour and for downpayment on a house...go me! It sounds like a plan! Now I just need an actual date...]
I give her a hella lot of credit. She's not even pretending thre's a possibility that he's going through a phase. She's assuming that when he walks out the door, he won't be coming back. So, she's researching and already has two plans:
1) Get her Real Estate license and to that end she'll be signing up for classes next week
2) Get all her paperwork in order for food stamps, rental assistance, daycare vouchers, and other welfare benefits so she can finish the little less than two years she needs to get her teaching degree (the state will pay her freight 100%). With her eperience working as a teacher's assistant for special ed, she's hoping she'll be able to get a teaching job in the field two years out, which would then allow her roughly five years to get her Master's degree, again paid for in part by the state.
3) Look for a new apartment. She can't afford to stay where she is. That might mean finding something cheaper in the area (good luck with that) or moving in with her sister who lives west of Rte 495.
So, yeah, she's being remarkably clear-headed about everyone, which leads me to believe that even if she was taken by surprise, some subconcious part of her pretty much knew this was coming. Which is pretty fucking sad all around.
So, anyway, she asked me to at least be civil with the hubby. I merely pointed out that I've known her to date some real assholes (I particularly remember the abusive coke fiend she dated when I first met her) and I've never been nothing but civil. Whatever is going on between her and her husband has nothing to do with me. Period. She wants to vent, she can vent with me, but I ain't volunteering shit. I listen.
Which got me a hug.
Now here's the sad thing: Even he changes his mind after he moves out and asks to come back, she's not sure she'd take him back. Why? Because she's not sure she'd be able to ever trust him again.
Or to put it another way, according to him, he's lied to her for six years. What's to stop him from lying again.
Needless to say, I feel the need for meanness.
I'll be checking out Farenheit 9/11 at the local theater tonight.
no subject
Anyway, for my wedding, we were at the fountain of the County Courthouse. My parents, her parents, our friends (who served as best man and matron of honor) and the representative of the judge. Total on-the-cheap deal, and neither of us would change a thing.
no subject
At some point marriage takes work. Anyone who tells you different is lying or has a really unrealistic view of marriage.
He doesn't want to work at it. Won't go into couples therapy and won't see a therapist to see if the marriage can be saved.
no subject
My friend was married for 10 years, for her 35th birthday her husband threw her a surprise party. The next month (January) he tells her he's leaving. Because he 'wasn't in love with her anymore' and 'she got fat'. He did have a girlfriend who he promptly moved in with. Couple of months later he tells my friend he was wrong and wants to come back. Then he changes his mind. Does it again. Changes his mind again. Does it a third time, this time she totally believes him, lets him back in her house, sleeps with him, and prepares her two children (who were six and four at the time) for Daddy, he calls her the Monday he was going to move back in, says he changed his mind again, doesn't love her, not sure he ever did. Since then, whenever he has a fight with his new girlfriend, he would whine to come back, but she long ago stopped believing him. I know what you mean about feeling the meanness. My friend's ex, who we now call "Dumbass" left this old car in her garage for months after he left - some old sports car he was 'fixing up'. I wanted to take a sledgehammer to it, but my friend, smart woman that she is, took the high road. Which was too bad. It would have been fun.
no subject
I was in a long-term relationship like that in college. Got left for another girl the first time. Took him back after the "I made a mistake" deal. (stupid, stupid, stupid).
Anyway, we cruise into our senior year and I can sense he's eyeing some other girl. Plus, he was going through a lot of shit in his homelife so he was taking it out on everyone around him by being a bit of an ass to everyone.
I immediately go into crash position while trying to convince myself I'm being unfair. He's having a hard time. He's pissed at the world. Trying to be understanding...
Anyway, right around this time, he mentions how a lot of couples we know were getting engaged with plans to get married.
I look at him and point out: 1) I didn't pay my own way through college just to get a MRS degree; 2) College graduation is a big life change and if he still wants to get married one or two years out, yay! But let's all figure out where we all stand first; 3) The way he was acting for the past six months, right about now I wouldn't marry him if he were the last guy on earth.
Geeee, wonder why he hooked up with the other girl that week before "kindly" letting me know two months later that we were breaking up. *rolls eyes*
Anyway, here's the really funny part: up until graduation, he'd get into a fight with the girlfriend, show up at my door, and like an *idiot* I'd let him in. Dumb. My excuse is I was 21.
Finally, we graduate. I get the distance I need from him. Almost six months later, he calls. Guess who broke up with him?
I told him never to call me again and he didn't.
The sad coda is this: A year later he died. I didn't wish it on him. But that's what happened just the same.
Have I mentioned that another long-term boyfriend turned out to be gay? No? Let's just say I have wreckage.
Whoa...deja vu
And I am now very very grateful I don't have kids and refused to give up my career.
Re: Whoa...deja vu
What really gets me is the: "You're not the woman I married." No shit! Time alone is gonna change people and if you get married assuming that people are gonna be stay the same through the years you're in for a world of hurt.
*headdesk*
Re: Whoa...deja vu
(Anonymous) 2004-06-27 08:44 pm (UTC)(link)What a doof. People growing and changing is the only reason that any relationship can last more than two years anyway.
We are hardwired to move on after two years, either having successfully mated, or not, by that point, and 'falling out of love' and being chemically attracted by new partner options. It's simple evolution. Humanity isn't monogamous by nature, only by choice. The couples that stay together for a lifetime, particularly the childless ones who can't use the 'staying together for the children' excuse, have found something more in their relationship than simple biological imperative or chemical attraction.
It's kinda annoying that so many men don't understand our own nature. Like someone said above, love isn't a 'feeling,' it's a *choice.* It's baffling that this important stuff isn't taught in schools, instead of trigonometry and gerunds and Archduke Ferdinand.
So many men are willing to see the logic in working on their homes, or on their automobiles, even to the point of consulting experts, such as contractors and mechanics, and yet completely miss the concept of working on their marriages, and are unwilling to consult marriage counselors as if it is somehow 'wrong' to admit that it takes work and that they might not know all the answers...
It's like they don't even get to know themselves, let alone their spouses. How can they even claim to have fallen in love, if all they really crave is the happy tingly goofy-smile feeling they used to have in the first months? Might as well do drugs instead, get the same sort of chemical high and only mess up your own life, instead of someone elses.
Set
no subject
I had a similar experience with a friend some years ago, except she was the one who left him. And yep, just listening is the right thing to do.
I think if you dig deeper she'll admit things haven't been right for a while.
It all comes back to communications doesn't it. If during all those years he'd admitted something was wrong and talked to her about it, then perhaps both their lives would have been much different.
I must admit I always wonder in these situations what would happen if the woman turned around and said 'leave, but you have to take care of the child while I get my qualifications.'
no subject
I just feel sad about it because they've been together 11 years.
And yeah, I definitely have a feeling that she knew something was wrong for awhile and once she gets some distance, she'll finally be able to admit it to herself.