Stalking the fanon Xander...

[liz_marcs]

I don't know if it's because of Walk With Heroes awards or if it's because people are just suddenly stumbling over these stories, but I've gotten some amazing FB this week for both Whisper and Living History.

Either that, or someone out there has been recc'ing me to just about everyone they know in Buffy fandom. I already know of one case where that's happened *waves to daniidebrabant*, but it makes me curious where my name is showing up.

Frankly, I remain both grateful and amazed when people take the time to send me long FB. Often I feel dumb-struck. How can you say more than "Ummmm, thank you. I'm speechless. Thank you." I feel like such a dork because I have no idea how to say thank you properly when someone takes the time to give detailed, constructive FB.

But that line that always bowls me over: "I love your Xander."

My Xander? He's owned by Fox, played by Nicholas Brendon, written by ME. By no one's stretch of the imagination is he mine.

That's usually my first reaction when I read that. Usually this compliment comes right after the fact that they're happy I'm keeping Xander (and by extention the other Scoobs) in character.

Which is why I'm always taken by surprise by the line.

That said, I think I know what people mean when they write it, even if I have a WtF moment when I see it. It means they appreciate and enjoy my take on the character. I can't imagine a higher compliment than that.

To an extent, you could argue that all the Buffy and Angel characters have crossed into fanon territory. The shows are off the air. Anything taking place after S7 Buffy and S5 Angel by definition has to be fanon. I'd even go a step further and argue that all fanfiction is fanon to an extent, no matter how close to canon you keep your story. Your story did not happen on the television shows, ergo, fanon. If you are tying it to an actual episode, you're doing an alternative take, if you will. That means it's still fanon.

I admit that I'm a bit of a canon-whore. I try to keep close to canon but still put my own twist on it. Therefore, I may have the basic "facts" of the Buffyverse and Angelverse right, but it's still fanon no matter which way you slice it.

Which has lead me to thinking: In many ways, when I read any story that is Xander-centric, I am looking for a certain kind of fanon Xander, or I'm reading for a certain fanon version.




There does seem to be a little bit of a bias against Xander-centric fics because the perception is that most fics that feature my favorite character aren't that good. Sadly, I almost have to agree with blanket statement and assessment, even though I know damn well it's wrong in the details

That perception is slowly changing because a lot of very good writers are adopting the guy. There are some amazing writers (both het and slash) that have taken Xander and run with him, expecially post-S7 Buffy. One look at the Xander category on Walk With Heroes and you'll see it. And by no means was that category a complete list. Shipper writers weren't included. A lot of non-shippy stories from some superior writers weren't on the list. Some older stories from some good writers weren't there either.

Yet, for all the quality Xander-centric fic that's out there, there have been far too many Xander!Marty Stus on both the het and slash side on fandom that it's hard to dig out from under it. Many of those stories are poorly written, poorly conceived, or just not original in any way, shape, or form. The latest plague of Xander!Marty Stus are coming from those endless "Halloween (S2)" retakes that seem to be everywhere like cockaroaches. The challenge actually started on the XanderZone fanfiction list and now seems to have spawned a subgenre of Xander!Marty Stus.

Now, let me be fair here, the challenge was meant to be a fun quickie challenge, if I remember the original post. Just a series of one-shot jokes and drabbles where you're supposed to guess what costume Xander picked this time. It was fun, quirky, and clever. It quickly mutated so that not one aspect of any corner of fandom escaped. Once it moved beyond the intent, I gave up reading because I was drowing in Xander!Marty Stus. Now I actively throw holy water at my computer screen when I see one of these damn things.

And.They.Won't.Go.Away.

Obviously, I'm not the only one annoyed, because I'm starting to see legitimate complaints about that little buggers cropping up everywhere I look. I'm sure there are some good Halloween challenge stories, but they're getting lost because 99% of them are utter crap and people don't want to wade through the crap to find the nugget of gold.

But the Halloween challenges are just the latest. Not to pick on specific writers, but I still don't get the appeal of the Wanderer-verse, the Journey-verse, and the Lost Warrior-verse which are the very definition of Marty Stu!Xander. I understand they're supposed to be AUs, but I can't even bring myself to get through the first stories. I spend a lot of my time going, "Who the hell is this Xander guy they're talking about? I don't recognize him at all." On the slash side of things, I'm still trying to figure out the appeal of Repossession, which isn't so much Spike and Xander as it is two characters who are completely different but just happen to have the character's names. The other Buffy-verse and Angel-verse characters don't fare much better.

Depending on who and what you read, Xander is:

1) A bad-ass
2) A wimp
3) A gun-lover
4) Hides behind people who are stronger
5) Superhero
6) Victim
7) Has solider and hyena memories to recall at his command
8) Doesn't have the brains to tie his shoes
9) Militantly straight
10) Oh, so very gay
11) Regularly engages in threesomes of any gender
12) A complete slut (I actually read someone who claimed that this was the case and it turned out that the speaker had never actually seen the show itself)
13) A complete prude
14) Narrow-minded asshole and racist (for the anti-vamp thing)

I can go on and on.

Granted, these are extremes. There are a lot of stories that fall somewhere in the middle on het-slash divide, or should I say, the XanderZone-NummyTreats divide, since one is militantly het and the other is militantly slash.

Now that I've probably offended everyone, let me tell you what I think is a good fanon Xander, regardless of whether you're writing het or slash:

He's a little more complicated than that
Even before the bizarre characterizations of all Buffy characters in S7, Xander was never consistent in his point of view on a lot of things. It doesn't necessarily make him hypocritical (though he can be), but it does make him "normal." Very often I think most people carry contradictory ideas in their heads about a single issue. Xander's no different. I don't think he's straight down the line, "All demons are evil," for example, but I think he's got some hard and fast rules he goes by until he's proven wrong.

Stories that Marty Stu!Xander into having a hard and fast code that goes beyond the basics (which I sum up as: "Hurt people I love, and I'll see you dead one way or the other.") drives me positively wild. Xander is right. Everyone else is wrong. He will show them the error of their ways. There is no room for compromise or for him to reconsider his views. Because he's right, in case you missed it. At the opposite extreme, we have Asshole!Xander who has that hard and fast code and should be punished because he refuses to budge or who should be belittled because he's clearly wrong and an idiot.

He's not always a victim and he's not always the hero
Xander can most certainly get in over his head. He can bite off more than he can chew. Yes, he had a sucky home life. Yes, sometimes his friends don't appreciate him. Yes, he can feel pretty damn sorry for himself. Yes, sometimes Buffy or someone else has to save his ass. But for all those times that happens to him, he's done his share of saving in return. With the exception of S7, Xander has had a key role to play in staving off an apocalypse. He's stepped in and saved just about everyone in the Scooby gang at one point or another, as well as Kennedy, and random bystanders. Sometimes it's played for laughs (as in the case of warning students not to eat the jello), sometimes it's dead serious (Kingman's Bluff).

I admit, Victim!Xander usually makes me cringe into the floor. I don't mind Xander being victimized (there's a difference) by circumstances, people, or even himself. I don't mind Xander feeling sorry for himself or feeling like a victim. But when we've got Xander throughout an entire story being nothing more than a victim so we can have "healing sex" or show how useless he is or to justify any bad treatment that gets thrown at the character in the story? Grates. Grates big-time.

The opposite side of this is the Revenge Fantasy!Xander who starts as Victim!Xander (usually victimized by his oh-so-mean-oh-so-not-understanding-friends), but gets even with all those people who've dismissed him over the years. (Poor Buffy gets the brunt of this.) Hero!Xander, or rather, uber Hero!Xander where he kicks ass and takes names all the time is boring and I hate this guy.

He's good with distance weapons and has some competent fighting skills, but he doesn't always win the fights.
The most Marty Stued of all Xanders is gun-love, badass fighter Xander. Frankly, Xander is someone who suffers by comparison on the street-fighter front, I think. He fights against things that are a lot stronger than him. He should be a smear on the sidewalk, but he's not. Personally, I think if Xander went up against a normal human, he could very well accidently kill them simply because he's so used to fighting with that disparity. That does tell me that he's a better-than-average fighter, but not as good as say, a Slayer. Let's be honest, Willow, physically speaking, is not as good a fighter, although she's got the mojo going for her. But I just don't see Xander being able to go toe-to-toe with a dozen vamps and coming out alive, not without weapons, help, or outwitting his opponents. Takin' 'em all on in a bare-knuckled fight single-handedly? Not going to happen. I don't care who writes it.

And the gun love. Yes, Xander has been shown to be profecient with distance weapons. He can use a tranq gun, he's deadly with a bow and arrow (the loss of an eye, in the long run, does not affect bow and arrow accuracy once you learn to compensate). But a gun collection he loves and uses all the time a la Anita Blake? *BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!* Sorry. It's just that there are so many of these stories floating around out there where I need to be a Tom Clancy fan to even get the idea. Don't get me wrong. There are some fics that make smart uses of guns and ammo or interesting AUs where Xander is shown to be using them, and I actually enjoy it when the author can give me a reason to believe that Xander's pulled an Ash with a boomstick. In those stories, he retains his "Xander-ness" (whatever the hell that means), but I just have a hard time buying that he's got more guns than brain cells.

Xander's distressingly human, even if he does develop a secret power or becomes something supernatural
Ooooo! Loooooook! More Marty Stuing for the masses!
Now, there are some great fics out there that play with this idea, but again, the key here is that Xander is still Xander. In my mind, Xander would be disturbed, upset, angry, or plain be confused if he developed a power or really was a demon or became somehow a magical creature. He'd probably learn to live with the idea, but embracing it whole-heartedly? I'm not sure. (The notable exception here is Cat Shadows which is an AU for S1 and is quite good, mostly because Xander is so completely 16-year-old Xander.) I've read far too many stories where Xander immediately starts showing people who's boss when he gets his cool powers. Cross-overs with the X-Men are the worst offenders in this category.

He's not perfect, goddamn it!
I'm bizarre. A lot of my Xander-lurve comes from his flaws. He can be petty. He can be cruel. He can be short-sighted. He has a temper. He can be narrow-minded. He can be wrong. He can be stubborn. He holds a grudge like no one's business. Sometimes he's not very nice to the people he loves. When he gets going, he can strip the skin off someone just using words. He refuses to talk about what's really bothering him to the people he should tell.

However, you've got fics that utterly ignore all these points. Because he's always right, damn it! Or, you have fics that only have these points in them, totally ignoring the good he does have in him. It goes back to my first point: "He's more complicated than that."

I know, I'm making blanket statements because there are fics in all of the above categories that I actually enjoy, even if I think Xander is OOC.

I think what I'm trying to say is, write me a human Xander (even if he's got powerz), write me a competent Xander who's sometimes a total dork, write me a Xander who can be wrong and right (even if it's at the same time), write me a Xander who changes and grows in the course of your story, write me a Xander who screws up but does some things right, and I am totally your bitch.



I have a feeling I'm gonna pay for this...

Comments

[nwhepcat.livejournal.com]

I ::heart:: you with a deep, true love.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Back atchya! *wink*

I soooooo gotta write you a long FB for Lilac City....

[(Anonymous)]

People who answer a long well-reasoned and articulate post with the monosyllabic reply, 'word,' piss me off.

But I have special rules for myself that don't apply to everyone else in the world.

So 'word.'

Paradoxically (or, hypocritically, might be a better word for it), despite loathing the majority of 'Xander gets super-powers' fic, I've written a bunch of it...

Set

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

And you're looking at someone who's written three stories where Xander is a demon. nwhepcat has a series on hiatus where Xander is becoming a Watcher-Seer. Cat Shadows is clever, good, and in character and lacks angst. So, I'm kinda with you on the hypocrite front.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to write a good story where Xander ends up with a power and uses it to good effect. Or even embraces it. There are some rather good ones out there (maybe 25%) that are fun reads. But you have to wade through a lot of crap to find 'em.

I'm just saying that this genre seems to have a concentration of Marty Stu that drive me insane. Yet, I oddly can't quite give up on this subset because there are some damn good ones out there.

And thanks for the *word.* Something tells me I'm going to pay for this entry in certain other forums, but running across another damn Halloween story has driven me to the brink.

[ludditerobot.livejournal.com]

And the gun love. Yes, Xander has been shown to be profecient with distance weapons. He can use a tranq gun, he's deadly with a bow and arrow (the loss of an eye, in the long run, does not affect bow and arrow accuracy once you learn to compensate). But a gun collection he loves and uses all the time a la Anita Blake? *BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!*

There is some canon support for that. There's the toy gun turned real in "Halloween", the missile in "Innocence" and Anya's handgun in "The Replacement". I don't know if "The Replacement" shows that the Army Guy stuff is still in there, buried by his low self esteem (which I tend to believe, since Buffy still thinks she's the princess and Willow's still mystical) or that he knew his stuff to some extent beyond the Army Guy blast. Thing is, the opinion of the show is that firearms do not work well against the demonic. Buffy said "These things? Never helpful?" about firearms twice in S6 ("Flooded" and "As You Were"), and while they show up more in Angel, they are only occasionally effective there. The Jossverse is anti-gun, and while I'm not anti-gun (but I don't own any, nor do I want to), it's one of the rules of the game.

Plus, yes, it does get Clancyish. The requirements of having to integrate and explain firearms in a Jossverse context is one of many reasons I haven't started the Iraq fic. And it has some great sidetracks, too!

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I agree. Boomstick!Xander can be in canon and fun. And you are right (which maybe I didn't point out all that well), there is canon support for Xander knowing his shit about distance weapons. You certainly use it in Snowblind to good effect (I love the scene you've got where he's practicing with bow and arrow). I certainly use it in Living History where it's mentioned several times that he's concentrating on distance weapons and has a significant role in building the household's arsenal.

But there's a difference, I think, between what we do versus the Clancy-ish, Anita Blake-ish stuff I've seen. (Although I admit that I have an unreasonable love for Between the Shadows which isn't Clancy-ish so much as there is a significant use of weaponry.) Distance weapons are important. Xander can use them. But they can't solve the whole problem and he knows that.

I'm more talking about the stories that seem to have Xander as being able to solve all his problems with with the right ammo and "show" Buffy how to really fight.

And I soooo want to read that Iraq story. At least you've got some first-hand knowledge of military issues through your family, so I can't imagine how you wouldn't do a good job with it.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

So very, very true. I've spent a lot of time wading through a lot of the bad Xander!Marty Stu fic simply because I was desperate to read anything that featured Xander in a somewhat positive light. I can remember points of light like Lori Bush or Ray Rivera but the majority of the stories were vast and bloated and the characters were largely unrecognizable. Desperation really is a horrible thing;-).

The Xander Renaissance of the past year and a half-two years has been a wonderful thing. It's wonderful to see stories by amazing authors who have a grasp of the characer and understand what makes him so interesting. Heck, I enjoy a character a whole lot more if he/she makes mistakes or gets in trouble because then that character has the chance to grow and change and become even more dynamic. There's just nothing all that interesting about a character who is always right, no matter what.

Poor Xander, he gets maligned by both his fans and his enemies. *eyeroll*

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

With you 100%. Some of the fics I read were...I'm tryin' to be diplomatic over here....

FYI, You can blame the Victim!Xander fics for Whisper. I had skimmed one to many Rape!Victim!Xander!Abused!Child Molestation! fics where he literally did nothing but take it that I was pulling my hair out. Then the scandal in Boston broke out in for the Catholic Church and...well...the idea gelled.

But, yeah. There are sooooo many quality Xander fics coming out of the woodwork. It's great to see.

but of course, this is fanfic.

[casix-thizbane.livejournal.com]

First off, yes, you're right. You've done an excellent job of capturing a canonesque Xander, but then, you always have. (I remember wondering a FEW times in "Whisper", but alas, I no longer remember where. I'll have to reread it.)

But, as I stated in the subject, it's fanfic. This means you get the good (rarely), the bad, and the Mary Sue. That fact is at once fanfiction's crowning glory (ANYBODY can write and get an audience!) and it's ultimate down fall (oh lordy, ANYONE can write and have an audience). Because the vast majority of fanfiction writers are not professional writers, or trained writers, or often times even quite fluent with the English language (though those stories can be fun in their own right), you end up with all lot of bad stuff. And a lot of very one dimensional characters.

Don't give up on those Marty Stus completely yet, though.... Every now and then, you'll find a gem of a turn of phrase.

--Casix

Re: but of course, this is fanfic.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I try to give unusual Xander stories a chance. I try not to dismiss them out-of-hand. There are some stories I've liked that definitely fall into the above categories. So I'm not a total Xander snob.

I enjoyed the Beverly Hills Cop crossover (I think it's been abandoned) over on XanderZone, and the Home Improvement one (also abandoned) had me in stitches. I'm still reading Darkness Calls, even though I think the characterizations are completely off because I think it's an intriguing idea.

So, a good pulpy Xander, even if I don't think they have the essence of Xander-ness can get me interested.

I think the Halloween stories are really what's tipping me over the edge (I know that's what prompted the above rant), especially since the original grouping of them were fluffy, clever, fun riddles with a punch-line that would make you laugh.

As for the mechanics of writing? I wasn't even trying to address that here. I understand that there is a portion of the fanfic writers set that does it strictly for fun and FB. I understand that they don't take it as seriously as say, I do, or other people on my FList. I also admit that it's a completely foreign way of thinking for me because I do get a salary for writing in RL and I can't imagine not at least running a spell-check or reworking an awkward sentence using Strunk & White. How I look at it on the mechanics front is a lot more hardcore than most people, so I know not to get on a high horse about it.

That's why I stuck strictly to characterization and what I think works and doesn't work. But, even stories that shouldn't "work" for me sometimes do. I just wish I didn't have to dig for them. More and more these days I give up or don't bother reading at all. Part of it is that I have less time. Part of it is because I've learned which authors I simply don't enjoy. Part of it is because there is an embarassment of Xander authors I like working the fandom right now.

And I agree, fanfic has its good points and bad...and I'm not bashing on people at all. I pointed out: I've figured out that I'm reading for a certain version of Xander and those are the stories that have a greater chance of me liking them.

[mara-sho.livejournal.com]

:stands up and claps wildly: Thank you! You've given a reasoned argument for just what is wrong (and what is right) in every Xander-centric I've ever read. (adds to memories right now)

The poor guy ends up being painted so many different colours that oftentimes it's hard to remember who he actually is. (Which might be part of the reason I go back and read Whisper so often!)

Can I just say: "I'm bizarre. A lot of my Xander-lurve comes from his flaws" - you're not bizarre, or if you are, then so am I because we think the same! (Hmm, that might not actually be the compliment I meant it to be...*grin*)

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I'll take it as a compliment. *grins*

I think Xander gets painted so many different colors because in the Buffy-verse canon he's a cypher and not clearly defined. By that I mean, Buffy is defined by her Slayer-ness, Willow by her Witchy-ness, Giles by his Watcher-ness, Anya by her Demon-ness, Spike and Angel by their Vampire-ness.

Xander's just "a guy" who I think tries to do the right thing. He's a perfect character to throw things at and see if they stick. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. A lot of it depends on what you try to make stick, the skill of the writer, and whether his essential "guy" personna is allowed to peek through.

The thing is: there are a good number of stories that make a lot of strange things work for Xander simply because he isn't clearly defined as a certain kind of creature. But for every story that makes it work, there are a good dozen that simply don't work.

I've looooong argued that over the long run, Xander and Giles (and to a lesser extent Faith) would probably be the "gold mine" characters for fanfic authors working in Buffy. Part of it is because ME left so many holes open for these characters or didn't bother getting into nitpick-y details about these characters that, with some original thinking and clever writing, you could make just about any idea work.

The other characters, say, Buffy, Spike, and Willow, are so defined, re-defined, and ret-conned that it's difficult to try unusual stories with them or play with them the way the author might like to. It's much harder to work with them because ME left us too much material (some of it contradictory) on these characters.

I made this pronouncement, by the way, after Chosen aired. People told me I was crazy, that there was no way Xander would ever, ever be a fanfic favorite. Considering the wave of really good Xander fics I've seen on the het-slash sides and the number of talented new authors stepping up to the plate in this arena, I want to do the "I was right" dance.

[luxshine.livejournal.com]

Can I link you or put your post in the essays section of Xander the Vampire Slayer? Because I've been trying for months to put in words exactly what you've been saying.

Yes, it's fun to write superpower!xander, or Watcher!Xander, or whateverIwanthimtobethisweek!Xander... as long as he is Xander and not just a random character with Nicholas Brendon's face and Xander's name. (Although yes, it seems that saying this on Xanderzone is a good way to invite flames)

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Feel free to link or borrow, just give me credit. *grins*

To be fair, there are moderate people on the XanderZone who'd give me the "word." It's a huge list with more than 1,300 people, most of whom lurk. But there are people on my FList who are on XanderZone. mara_sho is a member. daniidebrabant is a member. So is hpchick. None of us fit into the popular perception of XanderZone. I also have XanderZone members who lurk here as well.

It's a pity that there is this certain perception of XanderZone out there because it is such a large group with a large constituency. It's a really good way to reach large numbers of people in one shot and a lot of those people are willing to go off-list to find good Xander stories that don't fit the "mainstream" in that group. (Speaking as an author on there that's considered a Xander mainstream on the list, so let's talk ironic.)

However, I can completely understand why some people might be turned off by it because there are some elements that make certain segments of Xander fans uncomfortable (hell, sometimes it makes me feel uncomfortable). The signal-to-noise ratio is high. Arguments do tend to explode (I've been involved in one or two myself). And the sometimes contradictory rules drive me wild. Plus, there is a certain bitterness from some authors there that is a turn-off. These are problems, agreed. Are they fixable? Yes. I've always argued that the list needed more authors posting to it to balance out the perceived reality.

And, yeah, I'd probably get hammered for posting this there. But, and this is important, I'd have an awful lot of people defending me.

xander

[koos73.livejournal.com]

I completely and totally agree with you, Liz. A lot of people put Xander in one or the other extreme case. A lot of people who dislike that character, simply don't know him. They don't know him at all.

I like him for seven things:

1. He is normal surrounded a group of superpeople
2. His a total goofy, yet at the same time he can back off Angelus. He has real peoples knowledge. He knows Angel(us), he knows Spike (he and Giles were the first who accepted Spike, hell he even risked his life to save Spike in Doomed S4 and in he knew Spike had risked his life to save Dawn in Intervention), he knows Buffy, he knows Dawn, he knows Anya, he knows Cordy (both turned out to have golden hearts) and he knows Willow.
3. Sometimes he doesn't know how to tie his own shoe or forget the alphabetic system, but he's absolutely not stupid. In the contrary. A lot of ideas comes from him and he is informed for the things he wants to know (knows where Angel lives for example). It makes him very useful for fics.
4. He's very protective towards the women in his life.
5. He never forgets to distrust a vampire for a single second. It doesn't matter if the vamp is chipped, ensouled or a complete idiot (like Harm). In the whole Joss realm he is the ONLY one.
6. For me the most important one. He can talk really strange. Even double meaning in normal sentences and all. A lot of humor without the need to be goofy.
7. He needs lots and lots of love.

Of which point 2 and 4 are the second and third important. (I love goofy guys) Point two (and 3) makes him like a Columbo. Seeing things, knowing things. Like a hawk, masked by goofiness. Seemingly unimportant, but if he doesn't like you he can skin you alive. And unlike Columbo he can be very brutal. But, at the same time he can also do great things with it.

Probably there are more things in him that I now forget.

Re: xander

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

[huzzlewhat.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love you.

I should say something more coherent and specific than that, huh?

I've never been sure whether the things that I see in much of bad Xander-fic is peculiar to the character, or just because I tend to read more Xander-centric fic than any other character-centric fic. I mean, I've seen some heinously bad Willow-centric stories that suffer from the same extremes of characterization (or lack thereof). So I'm never sure whether I was just more aware of it because I simply read so much more Xander fic than anything else.

It frustrates me to see fic-writers over-simplify Xander for either good or bad -- for the same reason that it frustrates me to see writers do the same to the other characters. These characters are all so rich, so flawed. Xander is a gift to a writer, with all his complexities and contradictions. He's the character I love best, hands down, no question, but also the one that I'm most frequently tempted to hit the "mute" button on because of the things that he says sometimes. ("Dead Man's Party," I'm looking at you. And I spent the whole escalating "Entropy" confrontation with fingers half over my ears, mentally chanting, "Don't say it, Xander... don't say it..." Hah!)

There's a song by Alice Peacock, "Alabama Boy," that reminds me so much of Xander... and the refrain is that this damaged boy "could have chose hate, but you chose love." There's a line that Xander walks... and it's the sheer size of his heart that wins through in the end. But it's a real struggle, at times, to choose love over the instinctive anger. It makes the eventual, inevitable choice of all the more inspiring. That's a gift. Embrace the sadness of the character, the violence of the temper and the darkness of the emotions, made bearable by that love at the base of him.

This probably sounds like I'm in my glass house, throwing stones, because I'm fully aware that in my vast experience in writing the Buffyverse so far (three whole stories!), I've played to what I feel are Xander's strengths, and haven't yet done enough (or anything, really) with his failings... something I hope to work on. But I certainly do appreciate a writer doing it right when I read it done right -- and the Xander of "Living History" is so recognizable to me, as is the Xander of "Lilac City." Such a delicious, imperfect, wonderful guy.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

*giggles* I know. Entropy has one of the best Xander scenes in the whole series because you get a real sense of just how naturally pissed off at the world Xander really is.

Okay, I'm cringing behing the couch when that scene comes up, but it's got Xander's raging faults on display, plus that vicious tongue of his that can strip the skin off your back.

But, yeah, as bad as Xander fic can be, it's still has to beat some pretty cringe-worthy entries in the Willow category. The worst are the Old Skool Willow!Sue fics where Xander and Buffy weep at being mean to poor ol' Willow while she goes off to her perfect life. *gah* I mean, Willow's big fault (to me) is her raging passive-aggressiveness which, much as I have a soft spot in my heart for good W/X fics, would've been disasterous mix with Xander's more volatile personality.

And it ain't numbers. It's quality. And you put out quality stories. So maybe I might be tempted to yell, "Write faster!" at some people, I'll take "Writes great!" any day of the week.

I'll be honest, I thought Seeing Africa made great use of one of Xander's big faults: his inability to talk to the people who matters to him or to even really talk about what's important to him as a person. Whenever I read how Xander tells stories to track down Slayers and he can only refer to himself as "the boy," it's a perfect way to play a Xander fault. Or how he doesn't keep in touch with Giles nearly enough or thinks that Giles is too busy to talk with him. A good way to illustrate a Xander fault. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and it is Xander playing his faults into strength, but it's a very subtle, nice characterization that I envy.

But if you ever decide to do a "Xander's got issues" story, I'll be soooo there.

[booster17.livejournal.com]

*wishes to form the First Church of liz_marcs*

Total agreement with everything you've said there. Xander is a tough character to get right because of his very humanness - he's capable of being the biggest asshole on the face of the planet and one of the sweetest, most caring guys around all in the same conversation.

He's not a man of extremes in general, and that's why a lot of the better Xander fics take their time in slowly bringing him back from the end of season 7 recognisibly (Lilac City, I'm looking at you here. I *heart* Lilac City) to a Xander that we love again. It's sad that we feel it's neccessary to do so, but we love the guy so much.

Personally, he's not a character that I've used that much in my fics, mainly because I can't do him justice yet. I'm just glad to see so many good writers now getting their hands on him. Look after our boy, Liz - he's in good hands now.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

I will gladly take donations. *bows*

I think you're quite good, so give yourself a lot more credit there, pal. I know you've got a lot on your plate right now with your new uncle-ness, but I really do believe that you'd be able to pull off a Xander-centric story with aplomb. Plus, you're right there in the U.K., so I can't imagine how you wouldn't do a good job writing, say, training the Watcher!Xander.

*chants* Take the step, take the step, take the step...*chants*

You know you wanna...

Marty-Stu, Halloween fics, and fantasy

[(Anonymous)]

This is a great overview of typical characterization flaws in Xander-fic. It should really be part of a guide or FAQ for authors who are trying to write a faithful/believable fic. Now bookmarked for future reference.

As for your growing Halloween-fic aversion, I can sympathize. Darnit, now I'm going to have to add an author's note to the top of my in-progress Halloween fic to explain my propagation of a growing travesty. :-)

Unfortunately, the Halloween-fic is the only way (of which I'm aware) to bring together two wildly different story-verses in a believable setting. Well, without doing too much work that is. It can also be an interesting exercise in the "Butterfly Effect", ie. how the effects of a small, seemingly harmless, change can ripple throughout the seasons. I don't think this has ever been tackled, as it's a big job, but I'm hoping to move in that direction.

As for the Journeyverse (and other Marty-Stu AUs), they were my introduction to fanfic. Some of them are ridiculously over the top (Wandererverse), but as long as you don't approach them as a credible attempt to be faithful to the source material, they're quite fun to read. I enjoy the massive crossovers for the creativity involved in trying to fit the alternate worlds together. Journeyverse is enjoyable in this regard. It's very much an event-driven rather than a character-driven story, which some people simply can't get into.

As for the Marty-Stu story in general, it is often simply an exercise in wish-fulfillment. I'm guessing that's why a lot of people are touchy about real criticism being levelled at their fantasies. It feels like a personal attack.

Anyway, thanks for the essay! It will definitely be a helpful guide for all struggling authors.

Re: Marty-Stu, Halloween fics, and fantasy

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

You're Welcome! Whoever you are...

[(Anonymous)]

Man, this is what I get for coming to the party late. Everybody else has said all the obvious things.

Needless to say, I agree with just about everything you've said. I've had many of the same experiences and frustrations you've detailed, except that I've read very little slash-Xander.*

One of the things about XanderZone is that it's founder and moderator is an admitted fan of Action!Xander and CrossoverXander, so he's not necessarily that interested in some elements of Xander's character and personality that you or I would consider "key," so to speak.

Also, a lot of the membership of the XZ (which is not a new soap opera coming to Fox) seem to be convinced that ME's refusal to establish/define Xander as an outright hero or some other kind of "archetype" is what led to his eventual marginalization and sidelining in favor of other characters like Commando Riley, Vamp Spike & Angel, Witchy Willow, or Demon Hunter Robin. To an extent, I think there's a kernel of truth to that; every time I heard the writers claim that writing for Xander was so hard, I wanted to beat my head into the keyboard (wondering how the hell they ever expected to find work outside of ME, where the vast majority of characters are normal humans) when what I think they meant was that without a clear "hook" for Xander, the writers found it easier to write for other characters, and ended saddling him with the labels of "normal human" and "comic relief."

On the other hand, I think that mix of human foibles and quirks might have also hurt Xander in the eyes of the Xander-haters, because on a show with vampires, slayers, etc., they wanted characters who could be immediately hooked as one kind of archetype or another. And here was Xander -- no easily discernible category or archetype, such as vampire, werewolf, Bad Boy, Starcrossed Lover, or Perfect Boyfriend -- and a very human mixed bag of strengths and faults. Compared to the rest, his faults probably seemed larger by comparison than they were, and he was, I think, rejected for being too much like real-life boys and young men, and not enough like a romance-novel category. (I think this is backed up by the longest period of apparent tolerance of Xander, the stretch between telling Anya he was in love with her in "Into the Woods" and the proposal in "The Gift," when Xander was most devoted/committed to his relationship with Anya. Before that, and after the revelation that he'd insisted their engagement be kept secret in "Bargaining," people condemned him for his "fear of committment," and too many people never completely forgave him for the not-a-wedding in "Hell's Belles," no matter how hard ME tried to explain why he didn't go through with it.)

Thus, I think, why so many on the XZ are so devoted to ActionHero!Xander -- they honestly think that it's the only way to rescue or salvage the character. Plus, crossovers with already-established characters means they don't have to work that hard on characterization.

--skippcomet

*I think the main reason XanderZone is militantly het-Xander is because most of the members are themselves straight males. And I think that a key difference between straight males and females WRT slash is that straight males tend to regard orientation as both a core part of one's identity *and* as far more set than females do. Show us a male who seems straight, with no obvious signs of queer behavior or orientation conflict, and as far as we're concerned, heterosexuality is established. We don't look for subtle hints or possible subtext, and we dismiss any and all claims of non-straightness unless shown undeniably gay/bi behavior, with somebody of the same sex. We don't consider ourselves homophobic, but we're often baffled at the slashers' habit of slashing canonically straight characters while claiming that they're still "in-character." At least that's my take on it, but I think a lot of males on the XZ would agree.

In the case of Xander, here's a guy who crushed on Buffy, dated Cordelia, fluked with Willow, lost his virginity to Faith, and was in a relationship with Anya for nearly four years, so I just can't accept claims that Xander was canonically a more logical choice to come out of the closet in Season Four.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

See? I don't actually have a problem with the militantly het XanderZone, any more than I have a problem with the militantly slash NummyTreats. In many ways, the two lists are mirror twins, including having the same ratio of good and bad stories and stories with and without Marty Stus.

I actually respect the rules and understand why the exist.

My issue is that the XZ isn't consistent on the issue. Not okay for male slash, fair enough. The argument is based on canon. Fair enough. However, they don't apply the same argument to female slash. By that I mean, you've got canonically straight women in the Buffy verse in threesomes with Xander or engaging in fem-fem relationships. Right *there* is my my issue.

Now, Ten owns the group, he has every right to lay down the rules. I don't deny his right to do that. He has every right to do it.

It's just whenever I see this particular rule not being applied to the female side of the equation, it really annoys me to no end. And the mental gymnatics that went into justifying X was not okay but Y was okay way back when there was a kerfluffle about it rankles to this day. Good for goose should be good for gander, I sez.

Again, the XZ is not my list. I choose to be there, so I live with the rules because those are the rules.

Believe me, other lists that host Slash aren't a whole let better in this regard. I can't tell you how many times Willow is still with Oz in some slash fics and all the men are gay (with no explanation). So, I'm not saying it's a situation that's strictly an XZ issue. And yes, I do believe that to a certain extent, the XZ comes under fire for being militantly het when NummyTreats gets a skate for being militantly slash.

However, even most NummyTreats writers know they are fanon or AU or do not follow canon, so I've never heard the canon argument thrown around there. The XZ *does* make the canon argument, but it's selectively applied. That just opens the list up to charges of homophobia (which I certainly don't think applies to the whole membership) or hypocracy (which I think I justified). I know I answered someone else on the slash issue further below, here.

*shrug* Yes, I understand that the XanderZone has a high proportion of male membership which may go a long way to explaining why some decisions are made and why some kinds of stories get posted there but not elsewhere. (Not that I'm bashing on the guys, y'all. I love guys...) What you're getting here is a female point of view on the sitch. Much as we may confuse the shit out of you guys, sometimes the way of men remain a mystery to me....

[daniidebrabant.livejournal.com]

::waves right back::

Okay, there hasn't been a single word that you wrote up there that I didn't agree with, especially concerning the Halloween Redos and the gun-happy fics. It so overdone...and if I wanted a list of guns and the kinds of ammo they can take, I'd go look at a gun catalogue. I'm looking for a story, folks. There's been a few interesting ones (I thought "Silver Tongued" was interesting if a little...well, um. And "The Doctor is In" is just really really fascinating)

Can I add a couple things?

1. Zeppo-syndrome, and usage of the term "Zeppo". It's annoying. It's overdone. It's a reference that was made once, for one episode, and never spoken of again. I've read precious few Buffy fics where people call her a "Gift" or "Death's Gift" or any other permutation, so if this overusage could stop, it'd be a beautiful thing.

2. White Knight-syndrome, and usage of the term "White Knight". Okay, as you said, he's more complicated then that, especially as the series went on and he went into a world that was less black and white then the first three seasons were. The "White Knight" thing is a nice idea, but it implys a perfection that Xander as a normal human being like the rest of us doesn't have. It was a sarcastic insult. If Angel had snerkingly said 'I bet you can't figure out a way to keep me out, Einstein" I sincerely doubt anyone would call him "the Einstein".

3. Overusage of the nickname "G-man". I've seen it everywhere, EVERYWHERE, and it hasn't made me laugh once. Hasn't even made me smile--or snerk--or anything. It just makes me grimace. Please...he used the term once. Let it die. Just...let it die.

4. As you mentioned, Xander "showing people who's boss" once he gets his power. It's never really made sense to me in any fic when he does that. Even in "The Zeppo" when he did legitimately save the world, he didn't need to tell anyone about it. It's just not his way of doing things. I think Tim Drake (Robin#3) expressed it best when he told Dick Greyson (Robin#1) "You wanted to be a hero. I'm happy being Robin." Neither way of being is more or less noble. Xander doesn't like the spotlight. It doesn't make him better or more moral or anything; in fact, to some extent, it's hindered him since the gang doesn't know he has resources until he's finally forced to show them and that delay can cause problems. It's like the difference between being back stage and being an actor. Neither is better. But when he does the "hah! I'm not a Zeppo!!!1! I have shinypowers!" thing in fics, it's almost as unrealistic as if he suddenly without warning turned around and started kissing Giles (don't get me wrong...I do like some slash, but some of it makes me want to retch with the RandomlyGay!Xander). As a part of that, I've always found one of Xander's most attractive qualities was the genuine love and appreciation he has for his friends. Not that he can't be mad at them, or be petty, but I can't see the petty behavior extending beyond a few minutes before turning into "how can I help you?"

5. Xander's nasty side is probably one of my favorite parts of the character. Ripping into someone, going straight past all of their defenses and right into their heart and pulling out the kicking-and-screaming truth...that's an ability to be feared and awed. And no, he doesn't always use it for the most noble causes (Entropy comes to mind...while I cringed during the entire episode, I had to marvel at the emotional smackdown that was laid down), it is an ability that he has which is sorely underused, and when used, underbalanced. I'm right there with ya, Liz.

::starts humming "Dunce" by Voltaire::

I've probably got more saved up somewhere, but I'll stop there for now since I have to go out. So I add to the long list of 'WORD!'...oh, and put this up for a laugh

http://www.geocities.com/debrabantknight/XanderQuiz2/XanderQuiz2.html

Enter the "What Xander Fanfic Cliche Are You?" Quiz, formulated by yours truly. Hope peoples have fun. And if you can't seem to get the pictures to work (it's geocities and I have an abysmal amount of bandwith) I'll be happy to send you a copy of your result. ^_^

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Lookie what I got!




Which Xander fanfiction cliche are you?
Quiz by daniidebrabant


Why am I not shocked?

Now I have to try to get Gun!Love!Xander!

But, yeah. G-man. It's like Xander making constant references to moonpies and Giles cracks up every single time.

As for Zeppo syndrome...yeah...well....there is that, too.

[(Anonymous)]

Great post.Insightful and helpful.
My next question: can you do an analysis on Faith?

Faith has become my second favorite character now. I was lured to some wonderful X/F fics from the fine people at the CSM.

The fics that I had come across before, usually featured her as a kick ass sex addict wild child. Her prison record was never addressed or it was an AU fic, so Faith never went to prison.Also her violent history with Xander & the Scoobs, is never brought up as well.

--greeny

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Yeeep! Never thought to make it a series. I'm not even sure where to begin with Faith.

In some ways, Faith is harder to write than Xander. Part of the issue is (like Spike fans) a certain segment of her fans want to simply paper over her problems and past so she can be "worthy" of whomever they want to pair her up with. Dealing with it head on--especially since Faith, like Spike, was originally designed to be a "bad guy"--can take some work.

*heart*

[bastardsnow.livejournal.com]

As an occasional (though I'm trying to reform!) Xander!Marty-Stu writer, I really do have to agree with you. The number of Halloween fics (and the generally poor quality of them) has turned me off from even being bothered to give them a try unless somebody rec's them to me (read: Drake reads a story and says 'Dude, you HAVE to read this!' and then I shake my head and call it up, usually to be disappointed).

I think one of the big problems with lots of Xander-fic, specifically on the XZ, is that a lot of men 'identify' with Xander, see him as the closest portrayal of themselves that has ever been on screen. And thus they write fanfic, but don't want to make him flawed, because they in essence would be making themselves flawed, and as can easily be seen, these people often believe they are *never wrong*. They also seem to take insult at the idea that they (and by implication Xander) might be gay (hence the militantly het-ness of the XZ).

And I think that's one reason why some of the best Xander-writers out there are female, such as yourself, nwhepcat, and some others whose names don't come to mind at the moment because I just woke up an hour ago and my brain often doesn't start clicking for a couple hours.

Reading back on my own stuff, I tend to find that my own version of Powered!Xander is a bit Stu-ish for my tastes, (especially Destiny's Choice, which looking back on it seems to be an exercise in "How perfect is Xander?")

And this is probably why I love your stories so much. Xander is good, certainly, but never perfect. He has issues, he occasionally goes crazy (hehe... scaring Robin... funny...), he is, from time to time, a complete and utter dork. It's fantastic.

So yeah, pretty much what I'm saying is 'I agree!'

And that's it.

-Mark (aka Bastard Snow)

Re: *heart*

[physicsteach.livejournal.com]

I agree with what you say about how a lot of guys can identify with Xander. What confuses me is that the uber-Xander fanfics almost invariably erase the parts of the character that real people can identify with. Some of them are a lot of fun to read, including "Destiny's Choice," but they usually end up losing the things that make him interesting to write about.

[physicsteach.livejournal.com]

You forgot one:

Xander does not wear black.

[rubywisp.livejournal.com]

Doesn't wear black what? Because S7 Xander wore black t-shirts more than once.

(Not that I noticed because I was planning a 'why is Xander wearing Spike's shirts' bit or anything...)

You seem to be paying for it alright...

[plokhayasuka.livejournal.com]

But it seems to be more of a 'Killing you with kindness' thing. Well, everybody already beat me to the point (Ugh, Buffy Pun-age seems to follow me everywhere), so I will just add another 'word' for good measure. But, yeah, with all the good shtuff said by you and your cohorts, this post is now added to my favorites for future reference. Oh, and, if ya don't mind (and if you bother to read this far down in your mountain O' responses), do you mind if I add ya to my friends list? I want to keep up with 'Living History' while I can and, because of posts like this, I want to keep up with someone who knows so much about my favorite character.

Besides, I like friends, they are a good source of candy. Hmm... forgot to mention that I have been klistening to that 'Fuck the FCC' song ya posted for about an hour now...on loop...

Did I say I love you?

Well, since this post has been nothing but a rather short and pointless (ugh) ramble, I will leave before that song drives me any more insane than I already am and I start spouting off some wierd shit.

Joined the XanderZone. Might be able to actually post something when I get back from my deployment. Gotta work on it while I am gone.

What is your view on AUs? As in the complete. I have a serious problem when I try to write fics in that I want to 'fix' them to my own view. Rather than do the simple fix most fics (fix-fics, heh...I'm tired) try to do, you know the thing where they completely ignore the characters and do just about anything (or everything) you just mentioned, I take the Canon! back to the point where I thing I can work the cast to where I want them to be through character developement and (GASP!) plot. Now, you may not think that a problem, but whenever I get to that point I decide on something else I want to do...and something else...until I get to the point (dammit!) where I want to rewrite the entire series and start seriously looking at the movie and the very premise of the series itself until I essentially end up with these people at birth, or perhaps sometime in their ancient family tree so I can justify everything I want to do to them. So I get characters that have the same names and faces hitting some fo the same points in history and being kinda similar but diverge so much that I end up trying to map out a fifty-fucking-novel series and I just give up.

So, uh, there was a question in there...I think...or something...

Hey, look, something shiny...

Hehe...

Shiny...

Plok

Re: You seem to be paying for it alright...

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Awwww! FList away. Friend you back.

*hugs people here* I expected at least a couple of drive-by flames, but none so far. *knocks wood*

I have no issues with AUs. (YAY! AUs!) But I tend to think the best AUs can be summed up in one sentence. I've looked at AU stories where the list is as long as your arm. The key is to focus on one point from which the rest of the list can naturally flow.

For example, there are Spuffy stories that go through the list of things that *didn't* happen. When you get a list that's half a page, it sounds like the author doesn't want to deal with canon at all. How about summing it up in one sentence? "Spike never tried to rape Buffy in Seeing Red?" Simple, to the point, people know what to expect.

I've written two AUs, both of which can be summed up in one sentence, even though there are significant departures from canon. Let me give you an example of one of them:

*Xander kills Anya to prevent her from selling the Scoobs out in exchange for her own life

*Angel and Spike are fighting in the last battle of Sunnydale

*None of the Sunnydale Potentials make it out alive

*Spike survives the battle

*Xander and Willow are dead by the end of said battle

*Buffy is in England helping rebuild the Watcher's Council and recuiting activated Potentials

*Spike is working with the Council to do the same

The story is Into the Desert. With all the differences from canon above, the key AU element is this: "Angel brought only himself to Sunnydale to help Buffy in the battle against the First and not the amulet."

It's short. It's sweet. It speaks to the point. And it created all those lovely changes I wanted.

While AUs are fun, great, and I enjoy reading someone doing a different take on Buffy, let me just add: HATE all-human AUs. Passion of a thousand firey nuns hate.

[veggiebelle.livejournal.com]

This post was mentioned in hpchick's journal.

I agree with every word here. I read a lot of Xander fic (and, by the way, I do enjoy your fics) and what little I've written has been mostly Xander-centric. Like you, I'm hugely into to canon, and random ships just aren't my thing. Xander is my favorite character, a fact that I've actually had to defend sometimes. However, the amount of times that I've read his character go completely out of whack is just... frustrating.

Fabulous rant. Truly.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Awww, thanks. I get frustrated off-and-on with it. I think the reason why I was prompted to rant is because there are so many people who are turning out good Xander work on both sides of the het/slash divide that I've noticed my tolerance for putting up with some kinds of Xander-centric fic is dropping.

And, heh, yeah, with you on having to defend why I love Xander. *eeeesh* No one ever feels bad for us, either.

::clicks add to memories::

[dodyskin.livejournal.com]

for you and your comments. cheers

[(Anonymous)]

Personally, I would love to see a different incarnation of Xander. I absolutely loved Seeing Africa, and Mars Rising because they showed the introspective side of the character. Also, I would kill for a good non-shipper or maybe F/X fic about Xander in season four. I think that the season overlooked a large amount of growing from Xander that seemed to happen in too few scenes to suddenly reach the state in season five. I've also heard that there were a lot more scenes between Xander and Giles, which makes me sad that they were cut since having Xander finally bond with a strong male role model is an interesting concept. If anyone knows of a good fic along those lines, I would be very grateful if you could point me to it.

JimboSchlaf
PS. I know that I was a bit specific, but it has been a persistent plot bunny for some time, and I refuse to put it down for fear that I will never finish it. I have a problem with following through.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, it seems like you don't want Xander to Change. That you want him to remain the same with the low self-estime and to always feel like everyone his better then him. That unrealistique once you get Xander away from Buffy, Willow and Giles his self-estime should go trought the roof.

Xander self-estime issue are something i like Xander to deal with, become a better person, be the best that he can be. That what i like in fanfic.

And the worst fanfic are the Spike centric. Event when they are totally AU (everyone his human) Spike is still a bad ass tough guy. Come on William was a mama's boy he's about 5'7' and a 100 pound the only way for him to be scary is to be a vamp take that away and he is nothing.

I do identify with Xander the most, he is what i was at 16.
But You don't stay 16 all the time you grow up. You overcome your insecurity and become a better person.

On Xander fighting ability that the easiest to fix in a couple of year he could become a great fighter with training. I always tought that the reason he didn't train was because he tought he would be less dificult to stop when he inevitably turn evil.



The only Xander fic i really dont like are the rant fic in which hole chapter are just Xander ranting. And the Xander has no power so he sould just shut up and know his place.

Still i love all of your story except the sequel to Revelation (witch was great) i just don't know if Xander is stupid, a coward or evil in it. i'm sure it's something i'm missing or i really didn't get (as you can see english is not my first language).

Thank

[ludditerobot.livejournal.com]

For me, the issue is, if he's going to change, if he's going to grow, are you going to say "Whoops! He's grown!" or are you going to show the change?

[sibversive.livejournal.com]

Bravo! Been waiting ages for someone to say stuff like this.

I don't really write much single-character-centric fic at all -- most of my work is at least two or three people, and a lot of it is the whole ensemble cast. But the fact that I don't usually leave Xander *out*, unlike the uncountable legions of the Spuffy Fangirl Brigade, tends to get me noticed.

And yeah, even though I'm on the XanderZone myself, I know about the Marty Stu Xander phenomenon. It can get pretty ugly, especially with Boomstick!Xander or, God help us, AnimeXover!Xander. They are EVIL.

BUT...if you haven't read M. Scott Eiland's own take on the Halloween-costume fic, "Silk and Sandles", go do it. That's one of the very few that's *really* worth reading.

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Heee! Thanks for posting.

On the Xander side of things, the fact that when I write Spike I write him as likeable tends to get me attention as well (not all of it good). So I feel your situation.

Silk and Sandles, hunh? I'll have to check it out.

Feel the Love...

[camperx.livejournal.com]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I want to let you know that I'm in *total* argeement with just about everything you've mentioned so far. Marty-Stu's and Pigeonholed!Xander generally brass me off pretty thoroughly as well.

He's quite simply too damned complex, with too many competing priorities and passions to be limited in the ways that so many authors seem to gleefuly indulge in. I mean, sure, he may be a White Knight - but he's also Idiot Jed. He can stare down a zombie over a ticking bomb - but can also only take a hair-pulling slap-fight with Harmony to a draw. You can't have any one of these Xanders without the others and even *claim* to be true to the character.

Xander's not an action hero or a saint. He's a man who's seen evil and can't turn his back on it. Admirable, yes, but it doesn't make him something more than he is - a flawed and oh-so-human everyman.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.

PS - This is *way* OT, but I was wondering if you'd be interested in taking part in an BtVS/HP RPG that I'm putting together with echo, Jasper, Karen and a few others. If nothing else, I'd love to bounce a few Xander posts off of you when we get started, to help me get his voice down. If you're at all interested, even if merely from a conceptual standpoint (I've got an unusual concept of the nature of the Hellmouth that might intrigue, if nothing else), the link is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinesOfForce/

I've been a fan of yours since "Whisper", and would love to hear your thoughts on the concept.

So, I'm a little late...

[4thdixiechick.livejournal.com]

Um, ditto?

That was a wonderful analysis of Xander & the state of Xander-centric fanfiction. I'd say more, but everyone else already said everything worth saying!

[(Anonymous)]

Can't really add to perfection, but at least I can bump you to an even 100 comments. :)

Let me add that this post has sooooo totally made me your bitch it's not even funny. This is so right, it's the rightest (and yes, I do know that's not a word but if Joss can monkey with the English language so can I :).

So who do I send the membership fees to in order to purchase my spot in the Official Liz Marcs Fan Club? ;)

-Justin (who SQUEEEES! like a fanboy, pride be damned)