liz_marcs | How is bigotry good for business again?

Current Mood: stunned

Entry tags:

How is bigotry good for business again?

Edit: Update below, news round-up.

******

When I think of gardners, I think of all the kind-hearted people on my Flist who take pictures of their fields and farms. True, I have the ultimate in brown thumbs, so I tend to skim the actual how-to posts, but pictures pretty!

What I generally don't think is "homophobic bigot" when I think of gardners.

As it turns out,

stoney321, a Master Gardner, today received a stunning email from the president of a gardening supply company with whom she had done business in the past.

Troy Hake, president of Outsidepride.com, sent out an email blast to all of his clients and customers (which he numbers in the tens of thousands) to express his ultimate horror: two primetime CBS television shows that he enjoys had the unmitigated gall to show same-sex couples sharing a moment of affection.

The shows in question? Cold Case and Without A Trace, two television series that regularly showcase human-on-human violence for our entertainment. Now granted, the focus of both shows is on the people who solve the crimes, and less so on the victims. However, both Cold Case and Without A Trace have no problems occassionaly sliding in elements of the main characters' personal lives, including their sex lives.

Don't get me wrong. I like both shows, and if I've got nothing better to do with my time, I'll sit down and watch them. Mostly I like trying to figure out the mystery part beacuse I honestly don't give a crap about the character stuff.

Yet it boggles my mind that the owner of a gardening company with a significant catalog business, upon seeing a male-male couple on Cold Case tentatively working their way toward a relationship, and upon seeing a female-female couple on Without A Trace share a kiss, has gotten his knickers in a twist. So much so, that he email blasted his entire customer base urging them to drown CBS in complaints about both shows.

See? This is what I don't get about homophobic bigots (aside from the fact that they keep insisting that they're not, as Mr. Hake does here). Show 'em a decapitated body on prime time, they don't blink. Show 'em two people of the same sex making moon eyes at each other, and they're clutching the ol' pearl necklace (yes...a joke that's in bad tast...sooooo don't care).

Think he kind of forgot that a certain percentage of his customer base just might be gay? And that a larger percentage of his customer base just might find his opinion a weeeeee bit offensive?

Or maybe he just doesn't care and won't mind the loss of current and future business.

Anyway, to read the full text of the email blast that

stoney321 got, as well as

stoney321's response, go here.

You can bet that when I get home tonight, I'll be sending an atta-boy to CBS. As for Mr. Hake, I'll have to think harder about my email. I want to be polite while making clear that I will work very hard to turn his his company's name into "mud" with all my gardening friends.

He's entitled to be a homophobic bigot, of course.

And I'm entitled to preventing money from ever reaching his pockets because he is a homophobic bigot. I have no compunctions about letting him know that I'll be doing just that.

******

News Round-Up or Why You Should Never Assume Everyone Agrees With You:

One customer actually gets an answer from the company and it pisses him off. (F-bombs are dropped.) I have to include this snippet, though, because it made me laugh:

I know we won't be buying seeds from them anymore, and that's what it boils down to. The amount of business they lose or gain from this shit will determine their level of tolerance. Depending upon their profit and loss reports, they'll either fly a Christian flag or a Rainbow one. I visited their site just now to see if they were committed to their opinions enough to post it on their pages. Could find nothing at first. I searched their site for the word "gay". Found this: Gayfeather Thickspike. I'm sure it's a flower, though it would be a great name for a queer superhero, or maybe just a high-priced dildo.

Turns out, according to The Portland Mercury Blog, that it's a canned response that every customer is going to get. Considering how much publicity this is getting, no response might be a better option.

Best Week Ever actually has a piece on this email

The Consumerist, Shoppers Bite Back urges its readers to take action.

Cup of Coffee confirms they also got the email.

Gay Rights Watch has some fairly humorous commentary on the whole thing, not to mention a new Web design for Outside Pride. (WARNING! Image may be offensive for some.)

Here's something from the blog Good As You.

lisalamona got the same letter.

Loaded Orygun actually called Outside Pride to confirm that the email is legit

The Portland Mercury Blog has also picked up news about the email.

The Portland Metroblog has also picked up the sordid affair.

queer_rage has something to say as well.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You are made of gold stars and high fives.

I'd love to see what your response to him is, if you feel up to sharing.

I have to wait until I get home since I'm at work. :-)

But I will definitely update the post and give you a link.

Thanks for pointing this out! (More than a few other people on my flist did, too, but I don't read Stoney's LJ on a regular basis so I might easily have missed it.) I sent supportive email to CBS and a polite but disappointed email to outsidepride.

*waves* I suspect a lot of people on my FList saw this several times. I think I lost count how many times I saw it.

I've gotten this from 2 other people on my flist. I've been trying to figure out how to respond. Since I suffer from the same brown thumb as yourself my opinion will mean less than nothing to Mr. Hake. I could attempt to pin him to the wall with theological arguments but I doubt that is the actual source of his unease. I could chastise him for thinking of Cold Case and Without a Trace as "wholesome family entertainment" when they are so obviously intended for an adult audience. Than again, I could deplore his complete lack of professionalism in using his client list to broadcast such tripe.

So many ways, and yet none of them will make an impact on him. I just have to decide if I feel up to flinging myself at a brick wall today. I will send supportive feedback to CBS, even though I'm embarrassed to say I have never seen either show. I just don't watch much television. *shrug*

In my humble opinion, what makes this man a bigot isn't the fact he's morally opposed to homosexuality. He certainly has a right to that belief. What makes him a bigot is his demand that his virgin eyes be protected from ever being exposed to an opposing viewpoint as well as insisting that others join him in this misguided cause. That makes him a bigot.

I very much agree with you. I'm just positively thrown by the fact that a business owner thought it was a good idea to send an email blast like this to his clientelle.

Not only did he annoy his gay customers and the customers who don't agree with him, I imagine he probably annoyed customers who might agree with him in principle, but don't appreciate the fact that they got blasted with what is essentially a political screed when they signed on for a gardening newsletter.

He might pick up some new business as a result of this, but I can't imagine that it'll make up for the business he's going to lose as a result. Even though I (obviously) don't agree with his stance, why create such a deadly cocktail by mixing the two in such a way that people where not only shocked, but felt they got slapped when they read it because it was so unexpected? *shakes head*

What really confuzzles me, however, is the idea that Without a Trace and Cold Case is "family entertainment." They're crime dramas, and we're not talking Dragnet-style crime dramas with minimal blood and artfully posed bodies either. I think for me it's the mental disconnect. Given a choice between porn and snuff-like violence, I'd rather deal with porn.

Actually, I tend to avoid both in televised entertainment as a general rule. I think not-so-deep down inside I'm a prude. :-)

Hey, prudishness is underrated. :)

The man is an idiot as well as a bigot. There's no way this hasn't bitten him on the ass.

AND the other thing is he keeps referring to CBS as PUBLIC TELEVISION. Network tv, it is, but not PBS.

Remember the program on the Louds, years ago? Wonder what he'd have to say about that?

I'm not much of a gardener either, but I have several family members who are. I also have several blogs and an international flist/readership. Though you directly may not matter to "Mr." Hake (whose title is in quotations because I peronally believe that titles of respect are earned, not freely given), you can have a tremendous impact. I plan on telling him that while I may not purchase his products, I will highly encourage my friends and family not to do so - and encourage them to do the same.

You can make a huge difference. Even if you only tell one person, who tells one person and so on, the subsequent ripple can be much more than imagined.

Thanks for including the links to other stories about this :)

I just added more links. It turns out they're using a canned response to reply to emails, so it's doubtful they're reading anything that's sent to them.

You rock with the links. I, of course, loved the F-bomb dropper, especially this (although nothing beats Gayfeather Thickspike. I'm sure it's a flower, though it would be a great name for a queer superhero, or maybe just a high-priced dildo.):

*And one more thing: Please stop with the "Adam and Steve" shit. How fucking 1970's Oral Roberts is that damn line? If you're going to be a homophobic prick (which you are), at least get some new ways to verbally abuse your brothers in Christ.*

Sure hope they weren't one of those seed catalog companies I sold seed for in Brownies...

His post was definitely the funniest of the lot, not the least of which he was absolutely spot on.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if there weren't people who were pissed off that even agreed in principle with the guy. People agreed to get his company's newsletter because they expected gardening info, not politices. Some people are going to view it as a violation of company trust because of the screed.

His registered email address is troyh@outsidepride.com

Thanks for dropping the email.

Thanks for being interested in our take on Troy Hate, er, Hake. Don't be shy, comment when you visit!

And keep passing the word around on this nutbag!

TJ, Loaded O

I was sadly at work when I typed up my report and included your link, otherwise I would've dropped a comment (trackback feature only works if you're a member of blogspot).

Thanks for doing some legwork on this and I hope some of the local Oregon people who clicked your way stick around.

Stalked you down from stoney321's lj, and all I have to say is thanks! People like you and stoney are the reason there is change happening in the US today. It's just a sad sad world where not only does someone feel justified in defining what is "normal" and focing it on the world, but also actually believing that a majority of people would agree. I hope the sales do reflect his ridiculous remarks. Whether or not they fly a rainbow flag, we know their true colors now. Sorry about the pun.

I'm a member of the People's Republic of Massachusetts, and this sort of shit just doesn't fly here. The way I view it, it's a civil rights matter. Substitute "homosexual" for racial slur and it's the same-ol shit that floated around in the mainstream press during the 50s and early 60s. Right down to the word choice, even.

Being a history nut is a good thing, especially these days.

I had seen rumblings that this email might've been a hoax, mostly because most people can't believe that a business own could be this stupid, so I thought it might be a good idea to provide some corroborating links to back up

stoney321. The sheer number of people who've commented on receiving the email, not to mention the fact that the company isn't denying it in responding emails to justifiably irate customers, I think proves that this is legit.

I called the company and asked if they had indeed sent a letter about homosexuality on TV. They said he had. I thanked them and hung up.

It's legit, absolutely.

Which I appreciate the various verifications because it does seem so bizarre. This fellow acts as if this is a surprise for him that Cold Case and Without a Trace have characters in episodes who are gay and that it is in a positive light, yet he also makes it sound like he's a regular watcher of both shows. First, these were reruns, so it isn't like it is new news. Secondly, I'm not sure which ep of Cold Case was on last night, but it doesn't should like either of the episodes I can think of where the reason someone was killed was because they were gay or lesbian at the wrong time in history. I don't even follow the show any more and I know that.

If it weren't for the fact Stoney's done business with this company, I'd think it was a spoof - Outside Pride for pete's sake. If it weren't for the fact that Loaded Orygun called and received confirmation that yes the owner sent this out, I'd think the company had been hacked. I can't believe he thought it was a good idea to send this and a really can't believe the automated reply they're sending out.

o_O

Well...I'm nauseous now.

I think perhaps CNN would like to hear about Outsidepride's little letter.

The email has only been making the rounds for a day or two. If nothing else, it should make some kind of comment in the news because of the sheer boneheadedness of the move, let alone the fact that he obviously insulted a portion of his customer base.

Thank you so much for all of the links; LJ's blocked from work, but I tried to find as much of this as I could today via Google and the like. I'm sure it says something about me that the F-bomb dropper is my favorite... and I'm completely comfortable with what that says, actually. :)

Again, thank you so much for getting all of these together--it's something I look forward to watching develop, and I hope that the exposure only continues to grow.

Sorry to jump in here when I don't know anyone but I was ranting in my head and had to get it out. I find it AMAZING (and not in a good way) that this guy (and many ignorant others) think it's totally okay (and in their mind BETTER, one would assume?) to watch violence against women, brutal murder, rape, kidnapping, robbery, drug use, etc. as a family than to watch THE GAYS. When did a violent rape followed the next hour be illicit heterosexual intercourse become "permissable" but a smooch between two chicks is horrible? How do WAT or CC (two shows I actually enjoy) count as WHOLESOME FAMILY TELEVISION? I continue to be amazed by people's hypocrisy.

Busy boggling over here. What gives someone the idea that all customers share their views? Well, my favourite bookshop owners probably expect all their customers to be gay-friendly pagans, given that it's a gay-run pagan shop, but I'm pretty sure they don't expect everyone to do what I do and bounce in excitedly babbling about the last con I went to or the fantasy novel I'm currently working on.

Sometimes I wonder if I should try writing about a straight hero in a conventional relationship, just as an exercise, then I see stuff like this and realise that the world desperately needs more queer heroes (and more heroes in inter-racial relationships, with queer friends that help them solve the mystery, just in case I ever find a plot for Susan and Taj).

Looks like the company is getting well slapped anyway.

All I can say is, I wonder what this dumbass's reaction is to the depiction of inter-racial couples or dating. And I'll bet he has no problem with the depiction of May/December romances in which a significantly older male is dating a significantly younger female, but not when the genders are reversed. (Not to judge against any actual such couples, of course.)

[quote] And I'll bet he has no problem with the depiction of May/December romances in which a significantly older male is dating a significantly younger female, but not when the genders are reversed. (Not to judge against any actual such couples, of course.) [/quote]

Such a double standard we have. Harrison Ford or Michael Douglas hang out with their 20-something starlets, and everyone is like, 'Dude! Way to go! Score!' Meanwhile, my mom (59) dates a 26 year old and she gets evil looks and whispers of cradle-robbing.

She's 59. Not dead. Just because the people whispering about her have withered up and dried out sexually doesn't mean everyone has.

Seriously. I'm in my thirties, and if I had to choose between, I dunno, Sophia Loren and Scarlet Johansen (sic?) for a dinner date, I'd choose Sophia Loren. She's sexier than any Maxim cover model, that's for sure.

Thank you for compiling all this information into one post - I really benefit as this e-mail isn't something that's been received on this side of the pond. I'll be watching with fascination to see the full ramifications from this!

I got this same email(posted here with my reply as well) - and did the same as you did. How ever, I did not get a reply, canned or otherwise. I'm glad you did!

I friended you, hope you'll do the same

So, let me get this straight (heh, I said straight!), the dude's into gardening and he's *not* gay? I mean really, next thing you know, we'll be seeing a desperate foam-flecked homophobic denial from the male hairdressers, internal decorators and florists union...

But at least it will be a *stylish* denial.

My favorite quote from the pissed-off dude mentioned above;

- I would have actually had some respect for you if you'd just said, "Hey, we don't like queers. They're going to Hell. And if you don't like our letter, buy your fucking seed somewhere else!". It takes a rare and special kind of person to be able to suck two dicks and make two guys happy ... most people have to pick one side or the other. -

Man, 'OUTside PRIDE' and they sell 'seed?' I woulda thought this was a joke, too...

I first heard about this on

stoney321's page (well, from someone who linked to it) and instantly told a friend of mine.

By the way, that friend is a reporter for a trade magazine catering to the direct marketing industry. They have a section of the magazine devoted to the different ways that companies can and do use their email mailing lists. Less than a minute after I told my friend about this, he responded asking if he could forward my email to the head of that particular department.

I hope you don't mind if I forward a link to this post back to them, keeping them up to date, because I have a feeling they're going to be writing about this too...

By all means. That's why I put up the links on this entry, specifically so people can pass them on.

[Unknown site tag] of Loaded Orygun actually called the company to confirm the email is legit (the link is above), so his blog here on LJ or at Loaded Oyrgun might be a good one for your reporter friend to talk to. :-)

Unknown tag person in my response is

torridjoe.

I'd be happy to talk to traditional media to push the story along:

loadedorygun@gmail.com

Hey Liz. Longtime listener, infrequent caller. I wanted to give you an update on the good folks over at Outsidepride. I'm an active member of the large Burningman community here in Seattle and I passed on the info gleened from your blog about these shmos along with some vitriol of my own. We here in the great, gray, green, greasy northwest have been slamming Outsidepride with our responses, free of vitriol but full of our sincere feelings regarding their bullshit. Additionally, we've been sending emails of support to CBS and have sent out messages to Salon, ZDnet and RedState among others. Looks like this thing is getting some legs out here.

Thanks for the heads up and best of luck with everything. If you want me to keep you updated on this stuff, just let me know. I'm at phill.arensberg@gmail.com. You rock like Slayer. - Phill

Thanks for all the links and the info.

As a native Oregonian (as well as a human being), I'm mortified. Please don't think we're all a bunch of homophobic idiots. I tried to e-mail the guy, but I got way to offensive and couldn't send. Thanks to all who are spreading the news and fighting the hate. Y'all give me hope for humanity.

http://www.outsidepride.com/store/help.php?section=business

Direct Quote from their Privacy Statement:

“We will never sell your email address, phone number, or any other information to a third party. We respect your privacy and the reason you placed your trust in our company by giving us your information. You information is simply used to process your order and update you if there is a problem with your order. You will never receive any other literature from us unless you place another order with our company. We will also not sell your addresses to any other companies.”

Second, third and fourth sentences are most interesting. Are there any possible legal implications? I know, far fetched, but since there was never a problem with orders, just a melt-down of human decency...this *IS* false advertising to the consumer, isn’t it? They are mendacious on their own website...they seem to be operating under false pretenses by going against their own policies, or abusing their power over personal information to push a political agenda. I know this is a private company, so they probably can, but maybe someone with some advanced legal limbo could bring this discrepancy to their attention? Maybe THAT is a way to reach them, to make it clear that not only they are abusing the trust of their customers, but playing with fire by doing so?

I wish I were a lawyer. If there was a cause that I feel worthy of taking up, THIS would be it. Could there be a case? Anyone?

I hope there will be a time when my two daughters can honestly say that they have never seen a plea like this, sent under the incorrect assumption that something like this is alright...that decency was the order of the day, and that hate like this was something they have never seen. That we can all love each other, and let others love as they wish.

I can't imagine them gaining any more customers because of these views, and I shudder at the possibility that THEY thought so. But stranger things have happened, and it frightens me.

Rebecca

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

How is bigotry good for business again?

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Contact Mr. Hake directly

Re: Contact Mr. Hake directly

thanks for the traffic!

Re: thanks for the traffic!

no subject

no subject

that was the first thing I did

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Fixing the Unknown LJ tag of [info]torridjoe

yes, do

An update

no subject

no subject