liz_marcs | Whatever happened to Honor Harrington?

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Whatever happened to Honor Harrington?

What is it about female heroes? Why is it that in some long-running fiction series the things that made those characters special get Mary Sue'd out of existence?

I'm being serious here.

It seems that with alomst every book series I get into, a lot of these wonderfully flawed creations end up serving as stand-ins for the author (even if the author is male) and becoming just a little too godlike in the universes they inhabit.

Why why why why why why?

It's a given that there's a lot of Mary Sue-ing and Marty Stu-ing in fanfic. You all know the definition so I won't rant about it here. To an extent, the reason for that is pretty understandable. You have a very broad cross-section of people--all with variable abilities to write plot, character, dialogue, or just plain know the rules of grammar--taking a show or a book or a movie that was created by someone else and building on that. Plus, generally speaking, people who write fanfic tend to be die-hard fans first. So the urge to polish up what the author feels is an "unappreciated character" or insert a Mary Sue or Marty Stu into the story to interact with said "unappreciated character" can be pretty strong in some quarters. Sometimes it takes a hell of a lot of work for the fanfic author to avoid the trap and I'll be the first to admit that it's an easy trap to fall into.

But somehow I expect authors who publish long-running series and manage to make a living off the book spines of original fiction to be slightly better than that.

Right now, my ire is directed at David Weber because of what he's done with Honor Harrington. A year ago I was annoyed with Laurel K. Hamilton for what she's done with Anita Blake. Before that, I really wanted to strangle Carl Hiaasen because of the Marty Stu he's pulled with Skink (just about all of his novels now have a Skink-like character even if they don't have the name, including his clever young adult book Hoot).

I live in fear of what Jasper Fforde is going to do to Tuesday Next.

I mean, c'mon, I don't think I could handle Tuesday Next becoming the next great professional Mary Sue.

I'm not saying that all authors fall into that trap. Janet Evanovich's Staphanie Plum remains steadfastly screwed up (thank heavens). Terry Pratchett clearly has a love-on for certain characters, but they remain flawed and stubborn and imperfect. JK Rowling Mary Sues and Marty Stus no one, not even Harry.

See, I can understand getting a love-on for a character. I just don't want the author to make them the paragon, or rather whatever passes as the paragon in their universe.

Which brings me to Honor.

Honor, Honor, Honor...what has David done to you? I remember watching Buffy season S7, hugging On Baslisk Station through Field of Dishonor to my chest and weeping.

Joss Whedon, technically speaking, is a better writer. But he manages to reduce Buffy to a cypher and a martinet by the end of S7. She had shown good leadership skills in S3, or rather, she had shown she was learning good leadership skills by the end of that season. S4 we had Buffy learning how to listen to her advisors as they prepared to deal with Adam. Mid-S5, we had Buffy effectively standing up to the Watcher's Council and forcing them to play things her way as she finally showed an understanding of power and the use of power. The rootrot of Buffy starting to loose her ability to lead started near the end of S5. I mean, c'mon threatening to kill your allies if they even consider the logical idea that killing Dawn might be the way to go if you want to stop Glory? Can you think of a slightly better argument before issuing that threat? Okay, fine. She was under a lot of pressure, I can understand that. But that downward spiral continued until the end of S7 with no real progress back to Buffy as good leader being shown.

By the time the end of S7 rolled around, it made you wonder why Buffy was still breathing since she showed not one stitch of the leadership skills that she had when she was 18. Buffy became right by writer's fiat, with not one logical reason being shown why she was right or why she reached the conclusions she did. Plus, Buffy's plan isn't what saved the day. In fact, it made completely no sense. Open the closed Hellmouth? Let all those thousands of trapped Turok-Hans out of their prison? And the line's being held by a handful of Potentials who may become activated Slayers assuming Willow might be able to pull of a spell in mid-battle? A spell that could cause a lot of damage to Willow or make her vulnerable to attack?

Wha?

And let's not get into the fact that the day was actually saved by Angel, a character from another show on another network, delivering an amulet that came from what could be at best considered a questionable source, and Spike, who wore the damn thing even though no one knew what it actually did.

Hooookay then.

What I got from that is that Buffy's boyfriends saved her bacon before she really screwed the pooch. And all those girls just got whacked with power they didn't ask for or even necessarily want. But that's okay, because Buffy who bitched about it for seven years is right when the Shadow Men were wrong because she is well...Buffy. And if we believe her characterization in the last season of Angel, instead of taking responsibility for activating all those Potentials, she's decided to party it up and leave the clean-up to everyone else.

*bangs head*

Joss seemed to take delight in proving women don't know how to handle real power in the past three years. Quick, name one female character with real power that didn't implode during that time--that's right. Anya and Lilah, and even Anya stumbled. Plus, we all know what happened to them, don't we? Furthermore, ME kept painting them as being wrong. Very obviously, women can't lead for shit either in Joss's world view, let alone deal with conflicting opinions that don't fall precisely in step with the right-thinking.

It's sad that I read the last two seasons of Buffy like that, isn't it? I know the lesson Joss Whedon was trying to put forward. I just think he failed on its face because of the way Buffy was written by ME the last two years of Buffy and the last year of Angel.

But along comes Weber, David-fucking-Weber, who wrote Honor Harrington, the character Buffy should've been. When we first meet her in On Baslisk Station, she's an outsider, she's slightly stronger than the average human because of her childhood on a high gravity planet, she deals uneasily with the military and societal heirarchy, she hates politics, she's captaining her first ship and first command, her troops are surly and aren't sure she's right for the job, the people she's working with are unmotivated at best, her equipment and her ship are just shy of being mothballed, she has almost nothing by way of resources, and she's more often than not at the wrong end of powerplays and personal vendettas.

However, Honor in On Baslisk Station pulls through not by pretending to be uber-special, not by coddling people in positions of power or authority, and not by pulling rank. She wins simply by getting everyone under her command to live up to their potential. She instills discipline, yes, but she doesn't ask them to do more than their duty. She encourages the people she has to deal with on the civilian side of things by simply being open to good suggestions and ideas. She doesn't speechify. She doesn't bully. She doesn't put people under her command down. She doesn't deliver even well-deserved smackdowns of her immediate subordinates in front of the enlisted men and women.

In short, she manages to survive a high pressure situation and avert a sneak attack from Haven simply by keeping her head cool and thinking things through rationally. She trusts her lieutenants (lieutenants she didn't know, incidently) to know their jobs and what to do. She leads by example, not by speechifying.

In my humble opinion, that's real feminism. Weber is, if nothing else, big on getting ahead because people are capable, not because they're born seshul or born men. Being born speshul does give you certain advantages for education and leadership training, as he shows in the personages of Benjamin Mayhew, the Protector of Grayson, and Queen Elizabeth, the head of state for Manticore (imagine this people: Elizbeth is head of a powerful empire and she isn't lilly white).

I loved me Honor. And as I watched the deconstruction of Buffy, without the requisite rescue and rebuilding of the character, all I could think was this: We need Honor Harrington. We need her very, very badly.

God help me: Joss needed more David Weber in him. Weber can be a snob and a reverse snob all rolled into one, he can be an elitist of the highest order, but there's no chance in hell we'd have Buffy pulling the crap she did in S7 on her friends and "inner circle." Then again, if Weber were in charge, Spike would've been dusted early in S5 (Weber seems to have serious issues with men who behave badly, as the character of the now-dead Pavel Young can attest, especially considering the cadet-school incident between Young and Harrington is eeeeeeerily similar to the incident between Spike and Buffy in 'Seeing Red'--a scene in a book that was written looong before 'Seeing Red' was). Not a bad thing for some of us, but definitely a bad thing for other people.

What makes it especially heart-breaking is this very brutal assessment of Weber: technically speaking, he's not the world's greatest writer. I'd even debate whether he's technically a good writer. I give him at best a passable grade. However, as painful as some of the prose is, Weber has put a hella lot of thought into the Honor-verse. There's a lot of attention and detail (I'd even say too much detail spelled out over and over and over and over again) on weaponry, naval manuevers, government systems, the fine art of diplomacy and politics, ect.

The Honor-verse is engrossing because of such great detail. You know exactly where the Manticorans are coming from, the Graysons, the Havenites, and now the Andies. You have a pretty good idea what the Solarian League is and the Silesian Confederacy. There's this great interplay of power, diplomacy, military readiness, politics, everything that would go into running empires of variable sizes, all fighting to become top dog in their corner of the universe.

This is actually great stuff.

But as the Honor Harrington series winds on, the books get longer, the detail level even more minute. Do I really need 10 pages from every single re-occuring character in every single empire spelling out every single thing I've already read since the beginning of the series? Do I really need 10 pages without the single break of a conversation giving me every single detail about the political situation on every single planet within these empires?

No. I really, really don't. And the fact that Weber does this without any respect for narrative flow (such as introducing a flashback without telling you it's a flashback) drives me positively up the wall.

It doesn't help that philosophically speaking I probably occupy a space so far away from David Weber's Reaganite-Hawkish stance that it isn't even funny. However, even if we politically agreed I'd still be screaming at War of Honor that I don't want or need to hear about his philosophies of "good government," philosophies that are distressingly clear because all the "good guys" have the same philosophy and all the "bad guys" are very clearly not just wrong, but personally corrupt.

Right around In Enemy Hands, although the rot started setting in right around Flag in Exile, it occured to me that there were some simple rules in the Honor-verse:

1. Honor is always right

2. People who love Honor are always right

3. All god-fearin', right thinkin' people love Honor

4. Treecats only hook up with the specialist people in the universe

5. The treecats love Honor because she's uber-special

6. The treecats love Honor's family because they're all special and one of her ancestors was the first person to ever be adopted by a treecat

7. The treecats love Honor so much that they even sent a little colony with her from Sphinx to Grayson so they could start "Treecat West" or something

8. In case you missed that Honor was special: she holds royal titles on not just one, but TWO planets, and is an admiral in not just one by TWO navies

9. Honor is the most decorated soldier alive on not just one, but TWO planets

10. Let's not forget, Honor comes from 'umble beginnings gov'nor. So she got her titles, wealth, land, and widespread love because she earned it, not because she was born to it

11. People who don't think Honor is as great as the invention of the wheel are always corrupt and wrong

12. If the author takes a liking to a character who doesn't like Honor, they will very quickly learn to like, maybe even love Honor, even if in previous books they've been shown to have some pretty good reasons for not liking her

I miss the beginning of the series when right-thinking people could believe that Honor was a maniac and a menace. I miss the beginning of the series when right-thinking people had good reason to consider Honor a loose canon.

I miss it when Honor could be flat-out wrong. As it stands with the later books, even when Honor is wrong, it turns out that she is right in her wrongness.

I'm not even a quarter of the way through War of Honor, and I'm beginning to get annoyed with Honor in a big way. I'm pretty sure it's a bad sign that I'm rooting for the Havenites. And I'm pretty sure it's a bad sign that I've latched on to Shannon Foraker, Honor's opposite number on the Haven side, as my favorite character.

This is sad: Honor seems to have stopped being feminist and has become Mary Sue-ish.

Shannon Foraker, excuse me, Admiral Foraker who merely has a commission in one navy and holds no titles, seems to retain that sheen that I once reserved for Honor.

I loves me Shannon Foraker...

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I stopped reading Honor Harrington for the same reason. I admire your dedication to the series for hanging in as long as you have!

I'm hanging in there for the Havenites. But the related Honor books that are short stories? *Pfffffft* Really, really bad.

I think what annoyed me most about Ashes of Victory is that Honor is maybe in a third of the book. Plus, Honor and her people figure out how to teach Treecats sign language!

*facepalm*

Weber these days is the king of tell and not show. My dad's already warned me that War of Honor is maybe a quarter Honor with everyone else taking up the slack.

I'm still reading because I'm kinda stubborn. Weber says there are only three or four books left in the series, although I suspect Honor or at least Michelle Henke are gonna wind up being Queen.

You can only go so high before you run out of air. How do you top your latest achievement before the Suedom comes?

I'm still reading the Honor Harrington books, but I'll admit it, at this point I'm usually reading for the sake of the minor characters! I <3 Foraker too. Isn't her first name Shannon though?

And at least Weber's writing is consistent. Not great, but better than some. At the top of my frustration list is Elizabeth Moon, who can write brilliant books like "Once a Hero" and "Remnant Population" and then turn around and throw me potboilers that just ain't boiled yet...

DUH! You are so right. I don't know why, but some part of me keeps making Shannon a Susan. I better fix that in the journal.

Weird, I remember so many characters' names, but one of my faves in the series I keep screwing up.

I gave up on Elizabeth Moon after one book. I can't even remember the title, but I remember hating it.

Another one that stopped reading is Mercedes Lackey. She started pretty good with the first Valdemar book. By the time I read her fourth book, I put it down and never picked up another by her. Anne McCaffery I've given up on as well.

Look at all the pretty examples...

Well, you might like the two I mentioned, because in Once A Hero, the main character is screwed up even if she is talented, and in Remnant Population the protagonist is a crotchety old lady who is *not* the person the high muckymucks wanted to be the first to make contact with a new alien race...

Lackey and McCaffrey are still among the folks I read, but with the caveat that I no longer expect to find their books particularly rereadable. They've gone from Godiva to Hershey, but they're usually still chocolate. And occasionally I still find a few lovely almonds. My favorite Lackey is from the Bardic Voices universe -- "Four and Twenty Blackbirds" -- where the two main characters notice that they're attracted to each other, and don't fall in love.

You'd probably think of Tamora Pierce's characters as MSues too, but since her publisher targets a teen audience that's just as well. I'm particularly fond of Kel, who gets what she wants by working for it, and has a blind spot a mile wide when it comes to how people act instead of how they ought to act.

My new favorite books are old science fiction books by Orson Scott Card. I've only read the first two, but, if you haven't read them, I would suggest 'Ender's Game' and 'Speaker of the Dead.' The main character could be classified as a Marty-Stu, but the interesting thing about it, especially in Ender's Game', is that his perfectness makes him hated by the people he encounters and forces him into isolation. I found 'Speaker of the Dead' to also be very powerful, so, if you are open to recommendations, I would recommend them. By the way, Living History rocks my face off. ;)
JimboSchlaf

Technically, Ender doesn't fall into Marty Stu territory. He pays pretty dearly for all his skills and for who he is, if I recall (it's been awhile since I read the original triology).

In Marty Stuing a prime requisite is that everyone must love the speshul character. People who don't love the speshul character are very obviously Not Good People. Plus, the Mary Stu must be Above It All.

So maybe in the speshul category you could say Ender is a Marty Stu, I don't actually think he is a Marty Stu because he doesn't really match the criteria for everything else.

Ender is *exactly* who I thought of as a male version, actually. In Ender's Game, a great, great book, he's totally cool, particularly at the end, where the reality of what has happened smacks him squarely in the face. Speaker for the Dead, and the third book, IMO, would have been ten times better books had they been about new characters, in the same sort of situation, since Ender, to me, was 'finished' at the end of Ender's Game.

I really don't like when an author recycles a character that was designed for a one-shot and turned out to be extremely cool, then kludges him, however awkwardly, into every single idea he writes down for the next 20 years, until we are treated to books like 'Ender goes shopping,' and 'Ender ties his shoe.' When the character himself has gone to the point that his mere appearance is self-referentially 'cool' (insert name here, Spike, Fonzie, Snuffleupagus, Data, Q, etc) that he has to show up for absolutely no reason other than to satisfy his fans, then he's a detriment to the story. Heck, it's even disrespectful to the character to drag him into crap that isn't at all related to his character and have him stand around and 'look cool' and make snarky comments.

Spike, whom I consider to character most destroyed by this overuse, was cool in moderation. But when the writers felt that he had to be shoe-horned into every single scene, even if he end up having to be tied to a chair giving two-fingered salutes to people, then they needed to just abandon the idea of writing a show called 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' and start pitching one called 'Sexy Vampire with No Shirt.'

He was beginning to feel like Data from the last few Star Trek movies, who didn't actually do anything cool, but was coasting on residual self-referential coolness past, to the point where he could say *anything* and they had to stop the action of the movie to allow the audience to process it, laugh, cheer, whatever, since it must have been a terrifically important thing, to be quoted at conventions for years, if Data said it...

The Chtorr series, by David Gerrold, are another example of a writer with a predominantly male character who goes completely Mary-Sue within a few books. He's always right, even if every single fact contradicts his gut feeling, and every other person (even those significantly smarter, more experienced or more knowledgeable about the situation at hand) disagrees with him. And then the author makes sure to rub everyones nose in it for a few chapters, that the hero was right. Next book, same situation. Apparently no one learned the lesson that he's always right and not to ever disagree with him...

So it's not just a female hero thing. It's a 'writer too in love with his ego-substitute superhero' thing.

In the case of Buffy, the character assassination was predominantly centered around Buffy, Willow, Faith, Anya, Amy, etc not being able to handle real power, because none of the men *had* any power to abuse. Giles and Xander didn't escape seasons six and seven without some betrayals and screwups, and unlike earlier season versions of the same (the Cruciamentum, smothering Ben, the love spell, the 'lie,' etc) there was never any sense of either character ever recovering from those tarrings, or of them being in anyway morally justified. Even Spike didn't recover from the events of Seeing Red in any sort of natural fashion. He and Buffy never even talked about it, nor was there a real conversation about it with Dawn or Xander, and to this day, I have no idea if Giles or Willow had the first freaking idea what happened between them at the end...

Pretty much every Buffy character got tarred by the end of the show, and other than the characters just apparently forgetting about everything and going shopping at the end, there was never any sort of resolution, no apologies, no signs of them even recognizing that they should apologize, or be apologized to.

Set

I am still sore over season six where Buffy gets her soul raped by those dearest to here because they can't handle the good fight themselves and then all of them, especially Giles- the wanker, want her to shrug it off and get back to normal, leading, slaying, raising her sister, and working instead looking like breathing /hurts/ her.

When the souless vampire is more sympathic than the human cast, you have a problem.

And the magic as crack metaphor. What a cope out.

I tried to read the first Honor Harrington book, but I got confused and quit. I'm just commenting to say "Hear, hear" to everything you said about Buffy, and to suggest a kind of fun thing you can do with an Anita Blake book. Read any of the middle of the series, or "Obsidian Butterfly," then read "Drowned Hopes" by Donald E. Westlake. It'll probably be in either the regular fiction or the mystery section at the library. The juxtaposition of attitudes towards the kind of person who routinely tapes a spare gun to the inside of the toilet tank is hilarious.

KEWL!

Forever Knight icon! Hi Nat! Hi Schanke!

*giggles*

I admit that military science fiction is usually not my thing, but my dad talked me into reading the first one and that kind of hooked me. I also fully admit that Honor isn't everyone's cuppa.

People have recommended Westlake to me. I probably should pick up a book by him. It's just that an even funnier juxtaposition is Anita Blake and any book by Elmore Leonard for exactly the same reason. *heh*

I actually liked Obsidian Buttlerfly because my favorite sociopath Edward was such a big playa in it. But I'd been feeling the Anita-hate since she hooked up with Jean Paul. It's steadily grown to the point that I've called it quits post-Narcissus in Chains. I've now decided not to read any book by Hamilton ever again. Not even her new Fey series, which is even more ahem porno than the Anita books have gotten.

I mean, I don't mind porno. But this is Mary Sue porno. The worst kind.

Agree 100% - later Honor Harrington (and especially the short stories) ranges from disappointing to crap. I'm still reading them but for everyone other than Honor Harrington.

Oh, and I wish someone would invent a biowar weapon and take out the bloody treecats, they started off semi-reasonable but they are becoming mary-sues in their own right.

The Harrington books have definitely been going downhill lately. I've always skipped the technical explanations, but now I'm also skipping a lot of the political and historical background explanations. At this rate there won't be much left to read.

I agree with you about Foraker though. She became my favourite character bar NONE with one line: "Oops."

(Although I also have a big fondness for Scotty and Harkness, cos they're hilarious together.)

The thing about Rowling, something that I really admire and have tried to do with my own novels, is that she plans ahead. I have often wondered if other authors put that much planning nor thought ahead into each novel that they are writting or truly think the entire story thru. More often than not, I have found that authors, and genre authors are very quilty of this, tend to not flush out the details of their books and are more often prone to spurts of ideas that come to them as they are writing. The first novels in a series are always more thought out and detail oriented while later issues are. Unless you plan out all things from the start and know exactly what you are going to put into each book, its so much easier to fall into Sueage.

The great ones Tolkien, Herbert, Lewis and now Rowling plan out their worlds very well and most others don't.

Krissy

Add Bujold to that list: Miles Vorkosigan is the best written and most consistent character I have ever read and all her females cast members kick ass in every possible way.

I've never actually read Honor Harrington so I don't feel qualified to comment on that, but I heard this song lyric the other day and it made me smile because I instantly thought of Joss Whedon when I heard it.

How to hate women
when you're supposed to be a feminist

/I instantly thought of Joss Whedon when I heard it./

I am not sure you can call Joss anti-women when his male characters screw up as badly if not worst than the girls do.

Couldn't agree more. Buffy reruns happen to be on at 7am here, which is when I'm usually sipping my coffee and trying to wake up enough to start my day, and currently it is on season 7, and I just can't watch it again. It bothers me way too much. And the problem is it started out promisingly enough, Joss promised us a sort of 'back to the roots' season, so I thought with Buffy working at the school, and Dawn going there, there would be more monster of the week things, and maybe Dawn starting a Scrappy Doo gang. But then they decided to end the show, and I think Joss got too caught up in trying to go for the 'big ending' and lost the thread of everything. There were too many new characters, Buffy was a shill and demanding, there was no closure on anything. Which is why I love your story so much, you are doing quite a lot to redeem the characters in my mind.

It is interesting, what you point out about female heroes. Maybe because in the end, 9 times out of 10 they are written by men. Stephanie Plum isn't (and I'm so please to meet another fan!) and she is written by a woman. Terry Pratchett is just a genius in my opinion, and really understands characters. Probably the closest he comes to creating a Mary Sue is Tiffany, and even there he manages to avoid it because he knows what he is doing. I'm reviewing the last season of Xena in my head, trying to see if the same thing happened to her. Probably. The ending to that was pretty darned disappointing. Although Gabby wound up with the girl power, so that was something...

Anyway. I love that you wrote Forever Knight fanfiction way back when. That was another of my favorite shows.

Kay. Rambled enough. Back to work now.

I like the Honor Harrington series, its fun adventure fiction. However, I agree that Honor has become perfect, she is way to good at everything (brillant tactician, strategist, teacher, politician, administrator, businesswoman, hand-to-hand fighter, pistol shot, swordsman, etc). But I'm more iterested in the world-building than the characters anyway.

It isn't as good as the Horatio Hornblower books. Hornblower is flawed, downright unlikable at times. Though Forester copped out and made Hornblower too much of an anachronistic 20th century man.

As for SF, I just discovered the Vorkosegen Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold and its much superior to the Harrington series. If you want a strong female character read the first two books, now in an omnibus called Cordelia's Honor.

croaker

/If you want a strong female character read the first two books, now in an omnibus called Cordelia's Honor./

Favorite book of all time. Captain Cordelia deserves all the honor she is given.

Hee! You're so right in so many ways...:> This is my main reason for likeing "Crown of Slaves" so much...:> Almost no Honor...

I like the Honorverse for the details...though it does get down right boring to read through a character's musings on a subject that sounds all too much like a heavy handed way of providing instant cliff notes.

I would prefer to see a more normal character however. As a "reformed" gamer, I liken Honor to the Game Master's favorite non-player character...or in some cases...a player's favorite character allowed to run amuck. As this post spells out, Honor is portrayed as being super great at just about everything and the plots almost always converge on her own specialness in people hating or loving her.

Too much of a goddess complex IMO.

At first i completely disagreed with your post. But now, i have to agree. I wasn't nearly so excited about the last 3 books in the Honorverse series, and i haven't reread them countless times like i have the others. The reason being, it's just to easy for honor, she's on top of the world with no way down, and she seems to be a goddess in human form.

I don't know why she had to get married(when you're going to live that long, you really don't need to) sure she's in love, but that was a plot device we didn't need. I would have enjoyed seeing her go back to being just a bare bones officer living in her ship for a few more books. No need for romance. But if that's what floats your boat, i can live with it.

The detail i like. Really. I''m a detail person, i love each and every description. But the politics gets needlessly overdone at times. A little less politics and a little more time in space would be nice. But i do understand that this is necessary as no war can run without getting the necessary hurdles out of the way. Really, i just wish there were a few more obstacles in the story. An intelligent, dangerous enemy that can actually pose a threat. That's all i want. Well, that and erasing the past 3 main books in the series.

I stopped reading (also on WoH) because I realized I cared more about the secondary characters than the main one.

1b. Whenever Honor loses, it's almost certainly from forces beyond her control. There is a sequence after a risky scheme of hers succeeded, and she lectures an admiring class at the Naval Academy of all the ways it could have gone wrong, and threatens to pin their ears back if they ever so much as think of anything that crazy.

4b. Honor's treecat is pretty much the only known one in the universe with the ability to communicate telepathically with their human.

13. She's "not pretty, but beautiful", which is exactly the sort of mealy-mouthed doublespeak I'd expect to read in a Mary Sue fanfic.

14. She was Almost Raped, fought off her attacker, and spent a good portion of her life traumatized in a non-debilitating fashion.

15. Close friend of the heads of gov't and their families on two planets.

16. Her mum defies societal mores all the time, on purpose, and this is treated as nothing more than just embarrassing for Honor. We'll get in depth discussion of her role as a female doctor on conservative Grayson, but not of her wearing a rather revealing dress to a high-society party on that same planet.

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Whatever happened to Honor Harrington?

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Re: Marty-Stu done right

Re: Marty-Stu done right

Re: Marty-Stu done right

Re: Marty-Stu done right

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HH

Re: HH

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Honor Harrington's Infallibility

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