File Under Way Too Funny

[liz_marcs]

gakked from Metafilter.

What if The Shining (Jack Nicholson version) was made today? The use of Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel in the trailer is what really makes it!

Heeee! QTime needed.

Now, if you don't mind, I'll be joining mustangsally78 in the Serenity-hatin' ghetto. It's right next door to my Veronica Mars-hatin' ghetto.

The thing is, I don't hate Serenity or Firefly because "they took Joss away from BtVS or AtS." If Firefly was something resembling good (IMHO) or unique (Cowboy Bebop, anyone?), I would've forgiven all. But really, I didn't like it on the tube, and I dumped the series from my Netflix cue after watching the first disc.

I think I dislike Firefly because that was the series where I began to suspect that JW = Gene Roddenberry: a television writer/producer who had one damn fine idea — the kind of idea that has a huge impact on pop culture and maybe even society — and then proceeded to viciously beat it into the ground using every weapon at his disposal. The problem? They both only have one good idea and they keep (or kept, in the case of ol' Gene) recycling it.

Looking at JW's past work and then looking ahead at his future plans, all I can see are plots that I can sum up as "one female in all the world/universe who will kick bad guy ass but obviously can't handle the power because she's batshit crazy or will go batshit crazy" coming out of JW.

*headdesk deaddesk*

JW: The man is to feminism what what regular ingestion of rat poison is to a healthy lifestyle.

Jayzus.

To that end, I plan to do something wicked fun this weekend instead of handing over my cash to JW and encouraging him to keep pumping out more of the same.

Hello Big E! 'Tis time to pay homage to my cheesy love for massive state fairs. Because, goddamn, I want a massive Big E Cream Puff made with fresh cream, bitches!

And raid the Avenue of States for freebies and parades.

And, of course, Chinese acrobats.

Because, dude, it ain't a state fair unless you watch super-skinny talented people and whine that you'll never be that thin while munching on a big-ol' cream puff that promises to make you gain 10 pounds just by looking at it.

Just sayin'.

Comments

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

What if The Shining (Jack Nicholson version) was made today? The use of Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel in the trailer is what really makes it!

Bwah! That's hilarious.

[singer-d.livejournal.com]

Heh. I'm with you on Firefly being just plain bad. Bad television, bad science fiction. And I'm also with you on Joss having just one good idea. After the first three seasons of Buffy I thought he was a friggin' genius, after seasons 4 & 5 I thought he was very smart but too self-indulgent, after seasons 6 & 7 I revised my estimate waaaay down and realized he was a guy who'd had one good idea and had already used it up, and besides that all he could do was write clever dialog.

[hjcallipygian.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm not a huge Firefly fan, but I have to say, I saw Serenity out at the Comic-Con and really, it's a fun film. The one girl doesn't really overshadow the other characters at all. The last forty-five minutes is incredibly action-packed and suspenseful, probably one of the best climaxes I've seen in years. I'd suggest you check out a cheap matinee at the very least; even if you don't like the one-trick-pony aspect of Joss's writing, I think you'll appreciate the dialogue and effort put into this film. If they make more action films like this, I'll be a happy camper.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

I can totally see where you're coming from re: Firefly/Serenity. While I can't say that I'm in the hating ghetto proper I also don't live on the hill of 'All Bow Down and Worship Teh Whedon' either. What I primarily enjoyed about Firefly when I watched it was the way in which the actors inhabited the characters. The easy camaraderie they established was enough to pull me into the show. That and some of the niftier details that pulled his new playground together are enough to get me to the theater to see the movie.

It was, however, more then a little amusing to see how archetypical all of his characters are, and it wasn't the good kind of amusing, either. When I saw the trailers for Serenity with River all of a sudden placing the Slayer smack-down on her foes I couldn't help but roll my eyes. We've done this already, Joss. Yes, we know that you have a hard on for tiny little pre-adolescent looking girls who kick butt and take names. We get it. Find a new tune to sing and I might get as excited about all of this as you are.

So, in summation, when the acting is good I'm an easy lay. ;-)

[xxmagex.livejournal.com]

I think I dislike Firefly because that was the series where I began to suspect that JW = Gene Roddenberry: a television writer/producer who had one damn fine idea — the kind of idea that has a huge impact on pop culture and maybe even society — and then proceeded to viciously beat it into the ground using every weapon at his disposal. The problem? They both only have one good idea and they keep (or kept, in the case of ol' Gene) recycling it.

Agree. Roddenberry's original idea (wagon train to the stars is how he put it at the time) was creative and something new. The problem was, like you noted, he proceeded to beat it into the ground. He wanted to recreate the original idea. He never really succeeded. He had several interesting premises (Andromeda had an interesting premise before it became the Kevin Sorbo/Hercules in space show) that never were developed like they should have. However, he always came back to Star Trek and his particular version of it. (I don't think it a coincidence that my favorite Star Trek show was DS9 which was the first one produced without Roddenberry's control)

I had a history professor who once remarked that there would never be another Abe Lincoln or Winston Churchill as their greatness was made possible by the events of their time which would never be duplicated again. You can't recreate lighting.

JW had a great initial idea with Buffy the movie and pretty good execution the first couple of seasons, then he just let it crumble. I think maybe he got tired of it, like Arthur Conan Doyle did of Sherlock Holmes before he killed the detective off. Here, JW didn't kill off his creation, he neglected it to the point of abuse and then adopted some truly abhorrent views on how the show should develop.

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

Actually, the joke of that quote is Roddenberry wasn't pitching something original; there was an old TV show called Wagon Train, so he was saying "It'll be Wagon Train to the stars." If you've seen The Player, you know how Hollywood loves casting one show in terms of other shows ("It's like Out of Africa meets Friday the 13th!").

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Er...am I crazy, or did the person you mention above actually make an entry yesterday about how excited she is about the movie coming out?

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, you are right. It was the other horse person on my list, mustangsally78

Heh.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

While there might be some parallels between River-in-Serenity and Buffy (some, but not really many), I can't see how you can say "Firefly" and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are the same trick from a one-trick pony - even if you don't like Firefly. The two series aren't even remotely the same in form or content.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

yeah, I have to agree there.

not to say you have to like firefly; it's not going to be everybody's cuppa, but in the context of the entire series, River's story is only at the forefront in a couple episodes.

and even the movie is not as River-centric as the trailers make it out to be. Remember, Universal is trying to market the film to people who don't know anything about Joss Whedon except when the trailer calls him "creator of buffy the vampire slayer," so of course the ads play that up. but Mal is definitely the protagonist of the film, as of the series, and I would argue that he is a character-type that really doesn't appear anywhere in Buffy or Angel.

[huzzlewhat.livejournal.com]

If you're foregoing the Serenity juggernaut, may I take this opportunity to pimp Mirrormask? It's going to have a staggered opening starting Friday, and I'm not sure if it's anywhere near you, but it's going to be amazing.

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

Oooo, Mirrormask. I can't wait to see that.

[aceliwen.livejournal.com]

see, I never finished watching Firefly and never really got into River being kickass. I think I stopped watching shortly after River went all gun crazy--which episode that was I don't remember. I like River just plain crazy.

also hadn't thought about the Cowboy Bebop/Firefly parallels before. huh. eh, well, I'm easy to please.

[(Anonymous)]

The major problem with Whedon is that he's always looking at the "next big thing".

He gets bored, then goes on to something else.

As much as some people liked Firefly, they should be happy it was spared the fate of a season six or seven ala BTVS.

I shudder to think what would have happened if Marti Noxon had been given story control of it...

As for the movie... if it lasts longer than a week in theatres, I'll be impressed.


DCBanacek

[bellatemple]

JW: The man is to feminism what what regular ingestion of rat poison is to a healthy lifestyle.

I don't agree with what you say, but damned if I don't enjoy the way you say it.

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

I like Firefly/Serenity. I think it showcased JW's strenghts (dialog and character creation) and ended before his world creation faults could become a problem.
It also ended before he lost interest and it shows.

For the super powered young female not ready for power cos' she goes crazy? Kinda, but River is very different from Buffy. And I don't really have a problem with the hot superpowered chicks aspect to his show's.

As for his being God's gift to feminism, yeah, don't really see it either.

And how many eps did you see?

[eve11]

Gotta chime in here and say that my favorite episodes of Firefly (Trash, Jaynestown, Out of Gas) had nothing to do with the Simon-River arc. Simon and River barely showed up in them. If Joss has a one-trick-pony though, it's not kickass girls, it's "found family". The notion of a bunch of disparate people with little support other than themselves, living for each other as much as anything else. And the idea of finding reasons to survive, fighting because you have to, and not because you think you can win. It's kind of a bleak outlook he's got, that does permeate his shows, but at the same time it does provide a good backdrop for character drama.

/soapbox

(btw, thanks for letting me know about Kitchen Confidential! Yes, you are my source for all things Xander and Nicholas Brendan :) I saw the pilot and liked it... missed it this week... ah, I wish I had TiVo)

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

Yay! Someone who hasn't gone batshit crazy over Serenity. I myself saw three episodes of Firefly and was not impressed, the chars are dereative and the 'verse unorignal. Moreover, the dialouge sounds very similar to the Scoobies with the non-stop quips that are funny in kids but dumb coming from guys my age and older.

[r-becca.livejournal.com]

I've got no opinion at all on Firefly... seeing the movie will be my first experience with the whole universe.

But mmm... fair food. My personal favorite has always been the stuff that's healthy to start out with and then gets turned into junk food by the culinary magic of the state fair... fried zucchini being the best of the best. Mmmm... fried zucchini. So I'm sure you'll enjoy your boycott, whether or not I end up enjoying the movie. :)

[fluffybkitty.livejournal.com]

I've got no opinion at all on Firefly... seeing the movie will be my first experience with the whole universe.

Me neither and mine too and personally I can't wait. It opens here next Friday (which luckily also equals payday) so I'll be going as soon as I can.

[tylerdurden76.livejournal.com]

I'm not a big fan of Firefly. Of course with the exception of Battlestar Galactica, I'm not a big fan of most Sci-Fi. Mainly because I blame all recent shows for Farscape's cancellation. I am RABID about that issue.

But I'm shocked that you haven't said ANYTHING about BSG recently. Especially Pegasus. My god. Pegasus.

[koos73.livejournal.com]

I have tried to watch Firefly when it first aired. I got bored very quickly. I taped it and tried to watch it later. Nope. I downloaded the eps for a third try. I just can't seem to get into the show. It just doesn't have it for me.

[apathocles.livejournal.com]

Heh. eve11 mentioned to me that there was another person on the internet who wasn't going to be watching Serenity (gasp!), so I felt like coming over here and joining in the apathy. *g*

I don't know if I'd say one-trick pony, but I think he comes very close. Certainly, everything of his feels too similar for my liking. Having an easily-recognisable style is one thing, but having everything feel the same is another.

I borrowed a few issues of Joss's Astonishing X-Men run off a friend. It drove me absolutely nuts, because the speech patterns were so incredibly Jossian, and Wolverine should not talk like a freaking Valley Girl, goddamnit. Hank was Xander in blue fur. Emma Frost was Cordelia. Kitty, of course, was Buffy, because Joss is hopelessly in love with them both. And it was so frustrating, because I like (well, used to like) the BtVS characters so much, but if I'm reading X-Men, then I want to be bloody well reading about the X-Men, you know? *sigh*

That's The Problem

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'd say one-trick pony, but I think he comes very close. Certainly, everything of his feels too similar for my liking. Having an easily-recognisable style is one thing, but having everything feel the same is another.

Everything Joss does looks and sounds the same, he has the same dialouge and the same character types, they're entertaining once, but on new stuff (especially something in a significantly different setting), they quickly pale.

[invisionary.livejournal.com]

Are you a Cowboy Bebop fan? I love that series!

And, while I do think that a lot of Firefly was "influenced by" Cowboy Bebop, they really are two very different series, IMO. They have some things in common, but the tone and style are completely different.

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

I enjoy both Firefly and Veronica Mars but neither make me squee. I think I have a limited amount of squee and I used it up on Buffy/Angel.

[dreamerjules.livejournal.com]

For the record, I like Firefly. I have some issues with it and Joss, but it does work for me. I really like the cast and sometimes that's enough for me.

That said, I do have a good deal of animosity toward it and Joss. Some of it is of the "Joss's boredom and shiny new toy hurt Buffy and Angel" variety. But not all.

I think the greater part is my reaction to the storytelling on all three series. They all start off strong (though I think Angel was at it's strongest seasons 3 & 4), but, most obviously in Buffy, it falls apart after that.

As an aspiring writer, this infuriates me. Yes, you have to start strong to hook the reader, or viewer, which for me, includes characters I can connect with and care about. This doesn't mean I have to like the character, just that I give a damn about what happens to them. And what happens to them after the initial honeymoon period is just as important as that great beginning. How we say goodbye to them is just as important, possibly more so, as what went before. It's respect not only for your audience, but your characters and world.

Joss seems not to have gotten this memo. I refuse to believe the final scene of Not Fade Away was anything other than Joss's childish reaction to being canceled. An ending should have a resolution. Angel just stopped.

I'm a firm believer in five seasons and out for a TV series, especially since I've never seen it done. I know it's difficult between the studio and the fans, but it's the story that need to be served, not bank accounts. As a fan, I know I'd rather have a strong, well told tale than seasons 4, 5, 6 and 7 of Buffy.

Wow. A Lot I agree With Here.

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

That said, I do have a good deal of animosity toward it and Joss. Some of it is of the "Joss's boredom and shiny new toy hurt Buffy and Angel" variety. But not all.

Yep.

Joss seems not to have gotten this memo. I refuse to believe the final scene of Not Fade Away was anything other than Joss's childish reaction to being canceled. An ending should have a resolution. Angel just stopped.

Oh, that's defnitely true. Moreover 'This Girl In Question', although I believe in-char for Buffy was Joss lashing out a SMG for daring to refuse to re-sign and practcally saying the franchise had gone down the toilet. I think that ep compounded the error, the season finale would have been much better with a three part arc.


As a fan, I know I'd rather have a strong, well told tale than seasons 4, 5, 6 and 7 of Buffy.

Well I thought S5 was great, but other than that yeah, cut the fat, get rid of 4,6, and 7.

[learnedhand-dj.livejournal.com]

Heh. See, this it the problem with having such a large FL. Saying anything vaguely contrary, and your post gets 30+ comments.

Of course, I couldn't resist commenting also, because, well, you're just wrong. If you were wrong all the time, that'd be fine, I'd just ignore it, but it happens so rarely that I just couldn't stay silent.

Where you are wrong is your premise: that Firefly was about River, which is the only logical conclusion if you think JW's one idea is tiny girls who kick ass but go nuts. Honestly, I have no idea how you could have gotten than impression. The focus of the show is clearly Mal, and his gradually-developing willingness to take on a cause again after losing so much the first time. Sure, the show begins with the addition of River and Simon to the crew, but that doesn't mean the show's about River, any more than it means the show's about Simon.

Honestly, saying Firefly was primarily about River is like saying Farscape was primarily about Chiana.

If you didn't like Firefly because you thought JW's dialogue was all the same as his previous stuff, fine. If you didn't like Firefly because you thought the characters were all clones of characters from his other shows, fine. Personally, I think the dialogue is just a reflection of his style, and I think that these characters were different enough from his previous characters to be unique, but if you disagree with that, that's your right. At that point, you're claiming to dislike Firefly because of something that is obviously purely opinion, and while I might think you're wrong, I can't really argue with it.

But to say that you dislike Firefly because it is just a different spin on JW's one idea (telling stories about crazy, ass-kickin' tiny girls) isn't stating an opinion, it's showing that you really missed the point. I think it indicates that the one constrained by a single idea in this case is more the viewer than the storyteller.

[set-aka-ian.livejournal.com]

I love the easy humor in Firefly, but the series wasn't very River-centric, as you fear, it's actually more Captain Mal-centric and I loathe the character. He's just annoying, and spent the first eight episodes wishing he'd get sucked into an engine intake and that Zoe would end up in command of the ship.

Zoe is ten times the leader / action-hero that Mal will ever be, and is as un-Buffy-like as one could ever get. Plus she's got back like no two women in the Buffyverse could match. :)

Jayne is hilarious. He fills that niche that people like Rygel from Farscape or Dr. Smith from Lost in Space fill, enlightened self-interest. And his 'friends' react to it a lot more convincingly than Spike ever did, with three crew-members finding out about his shenaningans, one giving him a stern talking-to, one threatening to kill him and the other damn near going through with it!

Mal's 'wife' is also a great recurring character.

[bastardsnow.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree here (a rarity, I know, I'm usually right there on the Liz!Bandwagon). But the truth is, Firefly isn't really about River. If you want a comparison to Cowboy Bebop, then River is much more like Faye, as far as her importance to the storytelling goes (not in character... at all).

She is the cause of some (or even much) of the action, but she is, for those who know the show, very much *not* the hero of the piece. Malcolm Reynolds (or in Bebop, Spike... a naming parallel I hope never to explore) is the hero.

Or, if I may paraphrase Joss... this is Mal's story as told by River. So, yeah, she's a big part of it. But she's not the it. She's the catalyst, not the hero.

That's not, of course, to say that you have to like it, or even that you *should*. The universe *isn't* original (Bebop was definitely way ahead, and that was pretty much immediately apparent to anybody who'd seen it first).

But I don't think that not being original makes it bad. Derivatives can be good. It's all in the stories you tell, and how you tell them. And I liked the way Joss did in Firefly.

But, as my dad would say, "That's why they make red wagons and green wagons."

And that's pretty much my $0.02

[bastardsnow.livejournal.com]

And I know it's bad form to reply to yourself, but I also meant to say thanks for the Shining thing. That was frigging Hi-larious.

[tylerdurden76.livejournal.com]

Well, I saw Serenity. And yep, Joss has once again ran a ship aground. My god.

I'm so glad Ron Moore is in charge of Battlestar Galactica. I'd shudder to think what a hack like Joss would do to the best show on TV.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm enjoying "Firefly" a lot more in the current re-runs on the SciFi channel than I did when it was on originally. Maybe I was too bitter at the time over what was happening to "Buffy" to appreciate "Firefly"'s charms, simple as they are: sharp dialogue, interesting (if familiar) characters, and a strong ensemble cast.

My big pet peeve on the show is the Mal/Inara relationship. I despise the way Mal calls Inara a whore and insults her character and it's treated as just more flirtatious banter. Hey, it's OK because Mal really loves and respects Inara and she really loves him, too, and would quit her job in a heartbeat if he ever told her he loved her. ::rolls eyes:: It's such a cliched, adolescent view of sexuality that it makes my teeth itch.

But Wash makes up for it all. Because it's obvious that Wash is Xander. Not only that, Wash is Xander if he got married to Buffy, because--forget River--Zoe is pretty obviously the closest thing to a Slayer on the show.

If you close your eyes, you can very easily imagine Wash's dialogue coming out of Xander's mouth, especially the bit in the pilot when Wash plays with the toy dinosaurs on the bridge. "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Seeing Wash somehow makes me miss Xander just a little bit less.

Not that Wash and Alan Tudyk aren't cute and wonderful in their own right. And Tudyk's on Broadway right now in "Spamalot!" which I would love to see but you can't get decent tickets until, like, 2008.

Oh, and I love "Veronica Mars." Not so crazy about Logan's abrupt transformation into the rather Spike-like sensitive but troubled boyfriend, but the rest of the show is awesome. Excellent writing, and the best portrayal of an unconventional but functional father/daughter relationship that I've seen in years, maybe ever.
--BaileyTC

[inmyriadbits.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on hating the way Mal treats Inara at times, although I think its more a distancing method than anything else. However, I *never* saw it as flirtatious banter. It rather made me want to smack Mal. Also, I think you give Inara too little credit. I don't think she would "quit her job in a heartbeat if he ever told her he loved her." She's stronger than that.

I *love* VM. "Who's your daddy?" :)

[liptonrm.livejournal.com]

Now, after having seen Serenity I wish I had listened to you and not gone. That's it, I'm done with Joss. I'm sick of his gleeful emotional manipulation. I've been here since s2 of BtVS and I can't handle it anymore. The world might see hime as the Next Great Thing but he's a one trick pony and now I'll never let myself forget that again.

Sorry for letting my bitterness leak into your LJ. Even after a few days it's still hard to control. ;-)