Best! Quotes! About! Writing! Evah! and an interview with NB and BC

[liz_marcs]

I've not been online that much. Due to circumstance beyond my control, I've been mainlining Babylon 5 like a speed junkie.

I think it's because work for the past few days has been mega busy.

I give JMS much-o props for admitting what worked and didn't work on his baby during the commentaries.

Although, I'm with a lot of other people on his strengths and weaknesses. Great storyteller. Fabulous plotting. Amazing world-building for the aliens. Really worked hard to research the "real world" stuff he could, like physics or how a typical uniform patch would look in the military.

Stilted dialogue (at times) for the humans.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that he could write gorgeous dialogue for all of the aliens (Delenn excepted...shut up Delenn!), yet in the same episode would put real clunkers in the mouths of the humans (Garibaldi and Zak excepted...usually). *shakes head*

Still, JMS, I *flove* you. You are the Original Master of genre television and Ron Moore is seriously the Dark Prince. Ain't no one knocking either one of you off the moutain, babe.

I mean, seriously, there are two reasons to love JMS:

When asked about how fast the Starfuries can fly, his typical answer:

"They move as fast as the speed of plot."

*squeeee* Hi-larious. Because, so true. It's nice to have someone admit that.

But here's why JMS is the freakin' master genre television. It's the second quote.

From the commentary for 'Fall of Night:'

"Drama is when you make your characters climb a tree and then you throw big rocks at them while they're up there."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I want to see that on one of TNT "We Know Drama" ads. Because that is dead on.

Anyway, I had to post my JMS love, because, duuuuude, it's JMS and I love his B5 commentaries.

*squees like sad little fangurl I am*

On another note

This article is already making the rounds (and making not-so-happy waves) on various BtVS lists, so I figure I might as well post it here with no comment.

Bradley Cooper and Nicholas Brendon talk about Kitchen Confidential and discuss experiences with Alias and BtVS

And yes, I kept thinking, "Hmmmmm, and if JMS were in charge..." while reading it, because you sooooo know that Vir = Xander.

Comments

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Why not so happy waves?

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

*cough*

Let's just say that NB says some less-than-glow-y things about his time on BtVS indicating that the last two years wasn't a terribly happy time for him either personally or professionally.

[anonymous_sibyl]

shut up Delenn!

Amen. *giggles*

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

That pretty much describes my relationship with Delenn from about mid-S3 on. *heh*

Delenn's last great shining moment as a character when she tried to conjugate the word "butt."

Delenn: "I butt, you butt, he she it butts. Butt butt? Butt butt butt?"

Sheridan: "You sound like a motorboat."

Delenn: "A motorbutt? I don't think I like the sound of that."

She never reached those heights of dialogue again. And the scary thing is, MF could do Delenn's (rarely seen) dippy side really well, but she never got to do it. (sighs happily with her beautifully acted reactions to Delenn watching Duck Dodgers for the first time with Garibaldi) I mean, the woman could've pulled it off, but because this...*gah!*

In short: me like MF, me not like Delenn. I'm very good at separating the actor from the character.

Kitchen Confidential

[gumboy.livejournal.com]

Being a fan of Anthony Bourdain (Whose book the show is based on) and Nicholas Brendon, I'm very excited to see how Nicholas fits in with the "Kitchen Confidential" universe.

If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it. The book itself is a expose on what happens behind the scenes in the kitchens of the restaurant industry in New York City. If "Seth" is the character I think he is, Nicholas should have a very plumb role as Tony Bourdain's second banana.

The book itself talks about Bourdain's life, how he became a chef and some of the scary things that happen in the kitchen you DON'T want to know about.

After reading the book, I swore I'd never ordered a steak well done again. Or eat fish on Monday.

Re: Kitchen Confidential

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite nonfiction books as well. *grins*

I will not go to buffets because of that book. And NO BRUNCHES!

Sadly, a friend of mine has it (want it back).

I think Owain is actually playing Stephen (book Stephen). I think NB's character Seth is a conglomeration of different characters or possibly a whole new one like Teddy (John Cho's character).

btvs part

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

Brendon: That really is admirable. Because after about Season Five on [Buffy], or the end of Season Four, I was that guy. [Buffy creator] Joss [Whedon] actually said Xander was done--that there was no more. I was just kind of relegated to the background. It was one of those things that, where I was at in my life, the money was more important than my pride or taking care of myself. [Leaving], especially as the show's just starting to take off...

((wince)) Ow. Jesus, poor guy. And if you ask me, it really showed, too. Man....and poor actors, they're always so obsessed with their reviews, now they have message boards and blogs and ghod knows what all else to be obsessed with, too....I remember reading some ASH interviews where he said he and NB would always be at the local bar after shooting and be doing this If I Made BTVS or Making BTVS Right or something like that, and they always both complained they wanted to go dark/evil, and ASH sort of got that a little bit in S7 with is-he-the-First thing, but NB didn't get that at all. I've heard rumors that Xander was supposed to die, not just get his eye poked out, and then be the First thru the latter half of S7 instead of Buffy, which would've been great -- the "heart" turned inside out and undermining everyone, with huge great walloping guilt.

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

It wouldn't have been Buffy if he had been in charge.

The universe would have made more sense, things would have been better researched, plots for all the characters, things to do, no accidentally mixed messages, fewer "Doesn't this contradict the past?" but the dialogue and the characters personalities would've been very different, and IMO, that's what made Buffy work.

And it couldn't have been fun, going from pretty important with things to do guy to ... no plot, no reason, wait for the 2 maybe 3 episodes where you matter dude.

Can ya feel the love?

b5 part

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

Yes yes yes to all the JMS love....I saw a little bit of it the first season it was on, thought "What is this DS9 ripoff?" (yes, really), and then kept catching bits of the second season, and about by the end of S2 was hooked and had to catch up and got T hooked on it and then after that we were junkies and watched the whole thing and then all the reruns on TNT. That show was when I started to understand the serious nature of fandom because while I had loved XF, B5 gave me this emotional support during a really nasty time in my life. Also, that was the first time ever I saw even a bit of online fandom (mainly alt.whatever.moderated.jms, which was fun).

And yeah, B5 influenced even episodic network TV to a huge amount -- before that you had the XF "mytharc" but that was basically Chris Carter on ganja, plus it was so inconsistent....and now you see lots of shows, not just genre ones, with season-long arcs and plots and the genre shows are really picking up on it.

Also, I love Ivanova madly. I wanted to be Ivanova.

Delenn is a big problem cause by the end she nearly comes across as this superhuman....or superMinbari....force who knows everything and is Queen of the Universe and wins every argument and....yeah. Not Mary Suedom, quite, in terms of not a self-insert but a too-perfect character, but awfully damned close. Still, she got great moments like: "He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives -- be somewhere else." WHOO!

Re: b5 part

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

"He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives -- be somewhere else." WHOO!


"Ivanova is God. I will obey Ivanova."

Julia, even though my Barbie-sized Ivanova action figure has gone up to three figures on EBay, I will never part with it

other bitty part

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

I heard that a long while ago as "If you want a good story, get your character up a tree and throw rocks at him." I think that's still good advice.

I want to see that on one of TNT "We Know Drama" ads

OH GHOD THOSE ARE SO BAD. Who MADE those? Seriously, I want to smack them. Esp when they do Elisabeth Rohm and she's like "DRAMA! IS...." and there's this huge pause and then they just cut away from her, like, man, she got nothing, yo. Wait a minute, that's actually rather awesome now I think about it....

[4thdixiechick.livejournal.com]

Word to the writing quotes.

I hadn't seen the article before, so thanks for posting the link.

Because after about Season Five on [Buffy], or the end of Season Four, I was that guy. [Buffy creator] Joss [Whedon] actually said Xander was done--that there was no more. I was just kind of relegated to the background.

Well, that just pissed me off!

But I'm definitely looking forward to KC.

[bluegreensmoke.livejournal.com]

Aww. *hugs NB*

The thought of Nick goofing off with Bradley Cooper makes me smile like you wouldn't believe.

[huzzlewhat.livejournal.com]

Wait, am I supposed to believe that people didn't notice that after S4-5, Xander was relegated to the background? Everyone noticed this. People who didn't like Xander were pleased, people who did were annoyed, but everyone noticed. Did they expect that the actor didn't notice? Or to be pleased about it once he did?

Sigh. Yeah. Xander was wasted. Nicholas Brendon wasn't happy about that, and wanted more to do. Strangely enough, nothing in his comments in this interview even raised an eyebrow on me, 'cause, well, exactly.

Hadn't heard about SMG being vocal in support of Xander getting more to do in any revival. Nice to hear.

[jgracio.livejournal.com]

I said in another LJ, they took my viewpoint character away, the bastards.
Or all the viewpoint characters actually, since Willow got replaced by Dark Phoenix. :(

And it's funny that SMG's OTP ;) is B/X. Must be because SMG wanted to play happy Buffy.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Thanks for sharing the article, I hadn't seen it yet. I've never watched Alias, but I've enjoyed what I've seen of BC in clips of "Kitchen Confidential."

NB's quote about BtVS wasn't shocking. Although it was something that, as a Xander writer and fan, I more than well aware of, it was really brought home the other day when I was doing NB screencaps from S5. "Background" was a generous statement.

One of the difficult things I've discovered about writing Xander is that while canon gives him moments of growth ("The Zeppo," "Into the Woods," etc.) just an episode later it relegates him back to inappropriate joke guy. It makes it difficult (for me) in writing a Xander-centric story because it can feel you're making him OOC if he's not just spouting non sequiturs in a serious moment. (A lot of S7 comes to mind there.)

But he sounds upbeat and engaged with this new project, and it sounds like he's personally happy with it as well. And I loved the Emma "you should see this guy!" anecdote.

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

It's sad to get confirmation that Xander was deliberately sidelined. I'm not surprised based on visual evidence, but I am saddened none the less.

[mpoetess.livejournal.com]

It's bad of me to feel vindicated by Nick's comments about Buffy post-4, right? People who are pissed at him, or madly trying to spin it so that it sounds like he wasn't unhappy... confuse and annoy me.

I love Xander; in my perfect world the choice would have been to improve the storylineand Nick's unhappiness by making a place and path for him, rather than writing him out completely, or the shadow-Xander that we got from S5 on. But I feel backed up by what Nick said, that I wasn't imagining things when it felt like there was nothing for Xander to do, and it showed.

It showed in the character; he seemed to me as unhappy and uncomfortable as Nick seems to have really felt. I always thought that Xander comes off as sad and lost pretty much as soon as they try to play him happy, content, gowing into his job, yadda yadda - because it feels like a role he's been slotted into (as it is, because it's the place Joss stuck him, hoping that would work and he wouldn't have to do anything with the character anymore) that is too... something. Not saying that Xander is only happy (or only a good character) when he's fucked up; just that the place they put him in was some artificial adult world that no one that age is ready for. It came off to me like him desperately trying to be a success in the same arena where his parents had failed, without necessarily actually wanting that.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Interesting. It could be. It's sort of a parallel with some of what happened with other characters. After Shawn Ryan left to do the Shield, ME writers had no idea what to do with Gunn's character and no place for him, so they made his story about not having a place or any idea what to do.

Which, after S4, isn't what they did with Xander - basically just putting him into a box. If NB's dissatisfaction leaked a little into the performance, then for me it adds to the character and your explanation of the character post-S5 works for me...

[sneaker328.livejournal.com]

I think what I'm shocked about is that Joss actually said it straight out- that he told Nick, way back then, that he was basically done. I suppose something nice that could be said is that Whedon actually kept Nick employed longer than he was needed, and some might call that a favor. On the other hand, a bigger favor might have been to let him go and try to find another job where his talents could be utilized.

What's sad is this notion that Xander had no where else to go as a character. I realize people have different tastes and opinions about which characters have more potential for growth (obviously, I have always felt that Spike works best as a minor character and that trying to make him fully realized was a colossal mistake while others disagree) but there's always *someplace* to go with a character who is already pretty major if you're willing to put in the time and creativity. Look at you Lizbeth, still writing Xander fanfic so long after the show has ended. Those who care about the character have found numerous stories to tell with him. That Whedon and Co. abandoned him for shiny new toys is, aside from being sad, a real statement about their abilities as storytellers.

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

On JMS: I had a heck of a time finding B5 when it first aired, and ended up having to beg The Programmer (think a strange mix of Andrew, the Comic Book Guy, and Buddha...) to make me a mix tape of the critical episodes from the first three seasons so that we could catch up once we finally got cable. I always thought that the front story- Sheridan, Delenn, the Shadow Wars, et'c, although great SF, was the least interesting part of the series, and that the life went out of it when Ivanova was gone. Loved Crusade though, and it's on my list of "If I were TVgod, I'd finish the story" series, along with Farscape s5 and AtS s6.


: Because of the way I first saw BtVS (started watching the Fx reruns and Marathons and s7 Buffy simultaneously about the time "Lessons" was rerun the week before CWDP) I didn't really develop attachments to any character, or to any reading of the character, until after s7 was over and I could finally watch all seven seasons in order. It's given me a weird perspective, but one that I find useful in picking out the differences between how the characters developed and how the production values of the series degenerated in s7, especially. It's obvious to me that after "Selfless" most of the scenes NB was in were not given much in the way of rehearsal or direction, and if he's got all the words in a line, that's a final take, no matter how off the reading is (by the end of the season, that's pretty much true of EVERYONE: think of JM's reading of the line "Angel's got the personality of a table lamp, and we have very different coloring" or ASH's "That's bloody brilliant").

Making Xander as true to his earlier character as possible and NOT having him (join the Army, go through a period of heavy drinking, live on his girlfriend while not being able to find work, get more and more prone to take dangerous risks while on patrol and end up dead, turn from his high school friends and disappear from their lives)after high school would have resulted in a very different show, and no Xander at all. As poorly used as he was, and as poorly treated as NB was as an actor, well: fic writers exist to write better versions of what happened, I think.

Julia, interrupted so many times while writing this that all coherancy may have been lost

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

We're thinking that B5 DVDs is soon to be a necessary investment. I could watch Londo and G'Kar all day and there weren't nearly enough scenes with Lennier and Vir because what was there was priceless.

It's funny the placement of the comment because I thought s5 was Xander's best season. He spent all of s4 wandering around purposeless and lost and I wouldn't have enjoyed another season of that. Finding a job that requires hands on practical skills was a good way to go I thought. Yes he rose awful high, awful fast but this is television and I didn't really sweat it. As a character moments go he got to read the riot act to both Riley and Buffy and give that (I thought) beautiful speech to Anya about how much he really does love her.

Wouldn't it have been great if he could have really been played as "the one who sees" in s6 rather than standing back as his relationship with Anya disintegrates, his best friend spins out of control and Buffy self-destructs. I can think of so many other ways that all could have been played but, as has been stated, that's why we have fanficiton.

In the bloopers reel on the s6 DVDs they show two scenes from Bargaining that NB kept screwing up over and over. It wasn't funny, it was painful. I wonder if ME was trying to send a message. I wonder if NB just didn't care by then. I'm so glad he has his life back together now. And I'll be checking out Kitchen Confidential.

[koos73.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I don't know. Xander very much saw his relationship disintegrate. I thought that that was exactly the problem.

Babylon 5

[xxmagex.livejournal.com]

Babylon 5 is in my opinion, heads and shoulders the best TV show I have ever seen. Only one episode ever made me cringe, (the episode in season one where Garibaldi plays the role of the fugitive and drunk).

Season 5 wasn't my favorite, but I am forgiving of that season as they basically had finished the story line in season 4 when they thought the show would be canceled, only to suddenly to have a whole new season worth of shows to write- thus a lot of the sides story arcs got pushed to the front.

Still JMS is my favorite writer. I can only imagine of what he could have done in the Buffyverse.

BtVS

[xxmagex.livejournal.com]

I was happy to see the comment about SMG saying that she wants Xander to have a big role in any revival. Course, I've said on some yahoo newsgroups that I think it is too early to talk about any revival, give it about five years, and that it will have to be SMG to be the one to do it. After all, it's Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which to be honest JW seems to have lost sight of. He wants to play up other characters, which is his right it's his show, but doesn't really lend itself to the quality of stories that were there at the beginning.

Spinoffs very rarely are as successful as the original shows, anyone remember Joanie loves Chaci?

Re: BtVS

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

I was also very glad to see that SMG had positive things to say about Xander. Who know what might happen in 5 years time.

I have to disagree with you on spinoffs though. I agree they are rarely successful, but I find your example interesting. Joanie loves Chachi was indeed a spinoff of Happy Days, but so were Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy, both highly successful shows.

[koos73.livejournal.com]

Delenn was sometimes hard to watch, lol. Still, no matter how good Babylon 5, for me it ended with S4. I mean literally, while I did watch BuffyS7 and even AS5, I never have watched BabylonS5.

As for Nick's commentary. Not really a surprise that he didn't get anything anymore. It was evident that was soley used for other characters's arclines.

Love the Emma Caulfield comments. In my opinion she was the best actress of the show. Another lost they way Joss had used her.

As for Xander=Vir. I can see why, but Xander's more brave IMO. But maybe you're right. Haven't seen season 5 afterall. I see Xander more like Nog from Star Trek DS9, in the way he ended. (Hell, Nog even lost his leg in the last season. And Nog/Garek is Xander/Spike).

Xander=Vir

[xxmagex.livejournal.com]

Thinking more about it, I can see Xander and Vir being similar. Xander was definitely more brave, still Vir had his moments- Remember the underground Narn railroad. Vir just operated in a different situation. Centuri internal politics seems rather nerve-wracking.

As to Nog, hmmm been awhile since I've seen Deep Space Nine, I'll have to revisit Bajor sometime soon.

[koos73.livejournal.com]

What makes me really sad about Xander's arc is that the show ended more wide open for him then ever before. I really have no clue how he will react to the various losses. How he will react to his friends on other continents. I know how every character will react to given circumstances. With Xander this is for a big part a mystery.

[anelith.livejournal.com]

My husband and I both adore B5 so much, and think JMS deserves a lot of praise. I think B5 is probably a unique TV show in that JMS single-handedly created so much of it; he came up with the overall plot and wrote almost all of the episodes. I don't know of any other show that can compare.

If one could put JMS's plotting together with JW's ear for dialogue, now wouldn't that be something?

[(Anonymous)]

Because after about Season Five on [Buffy], or the end of Season Four, I was that guy. [Buffy creator] Joss [Whedon] actually said Xander was done--that there was no more.

Argh! You mean I could have been spared the descent into mediocrity that was S5, the horror of S6, the utter ineptitude of S7? Because I would have pretty much stopped watching if NB had left. Xander was the primary reason I watched.

As bad as those seasons were, can you imagine what they would have been like without Xander? The mind boggles at the thought of those seasons with just Clem and *shudder* Andrew for comic relief. No Xander would have meant more self-indulgent, melodramatic dialogue for Buffy and Spike, more screeching for Dawn, more "I'm not addicted to magic, wait, yes, I am, ha! fooled you, I'm really addicted to power" idiocy for Willow, more--umm--did Giles actually have anything to do during those seasons?

Seriously, Bradley Cooper's little story about Emma made up for all of the interviews and such I've read with her that left me kinda cold. Yay Emma for recognizing NB's talent, even if he had precious little chance to show it during her tenure.

And amen to whoever said that NB's dissatisfaction with Xander's background status as well as his own personal issues showed on screen. While I don't think he ever gave a bad performance per se in S5-7 and occasionally did some wonderful work, it absolutely pales next to, say, S2. The comic timing especially. Ironically, the last really wonderful comic performance he gave was "Buffy vs. Dracula," the very first episode of S5, right after--presumably--Joss told NB that Xander's story was over.
--BaileyTC

JMS

[keith5by5.livejournal.com]

Plot arcs, characterisation, wonderful. The Londo\G'Kar relationship\arc might very well be my favourite of all time, the way the two of them changed and matured in the series. Then there's Sheridan my favourite hero in fiction. Then there's the alieness of the ships. Then you have Leniar and Vir and their relationships with their ambassadors.

The only misstep was Lockley, she was so forced.