liz_marcs | 9/11: It's like the Fourth of July in a way...

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9/11: It's like the Fourth of July in a way...

What the FUCK?

*seethes*

Are you shitting me about the Walk-A-Thon/Country Music Concert to "celebrate freedom" and "support the troops" and to "remember the victims of 9/11"? And it's actually ORGANIZED by the Department of Defense?

As in this is MY tax dollars at work?

I. Have. No. Fucking. Words.

This picture from Dependable Renegade pretty much says it all, dontchya think?

Orwell must be laughing his ass off.

Allow me to join Steve Gilliard in wishing Rumsfeld a one-way express ticket to hell. Way to once more hide behind the pile of rubble that was the World Trade Center and International Good Will as more and more of the general American public figures out that you and your boss FUCKING LIED because you had a hard-on for reshaping the Middle East according to some mushroom-inspired neocon fantasy.

Oh, and Clint Black? I'm ordering an express ticket to hell for you, too. Maybe you and Rummy can share a seat. Can't come soon enough for either one of you, baby. *kiss-kiss*

To make me feel better, I've decided to make a wee small donation to support Cindy Sheehan as she continues to dare President Bush to come out and answer her questions.

Woman's got serious OVARIES people. And we all know that Bush has no balls. It's really an unfair fight. I put $25 on Sheehan to win.

Rumor has it they're going to arrest her if she doesn't leave the side of the road by Thursday.

As Maureen Dowd points out, ignoring Sheehan (and trust me, you don't ever want to piss off a Gold Star Mother with a mission because that's just bad juju) is probably the stupidest way to handle the situation.

As our Chickenhawk-in-Chief (bwack-bwack-bwack-BWACK!) continues to hide his alcoholic ass from one Gold Star Mother, the Right Wing Slime Machine continues to tie itself in knots to the point where the "t" word (that would be "traitor") has been applied. And before anyone tosses the Drudge/O'Reilly talking point at me that Sheehan said something completely different about holding Bush personally responsible for her son's death after meeting with the Chickenhawk-in-Chief last year, just to let you know: they're misquoting her just a little bit. Actually, they've edited, twisted, and basically lied about what Cindy Sheehan actually said.

So, while I'm wishing Clint Black and Donnie Rumsfeld a long, painful trip to hell, why don't I throw Bill O'Reilly and Michele Malkin on top of the flaming turd pile. Hope you all burn. Fuckers.

Since I can't call down a rain of fire on these people's asses, I guess I'll just have to toss some bucks in the Cindy Sheehan kitty. Poor woman is ill because of her outdoor vigil, but she ain't moving from her spot. The woman needs chicken soup. Hopefully my contribution will buy some of the good stuff for her.

I am irate now with the entire fucked-up government we've got in the U.S. I don't suppose there's a job waiting for me in Canada somewhere? I've always been a Maple Leafer at heart. Does it help that my mother's family is originally from Quebec?

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Nothing to say but amen, amen, amen. T's stance on going to Canada might possibly waver if a Dem (or even a not-Jeb) gets elected in 08, but otherwise, I get the feeling his ass is outta here, esp if Jeb is elected (AUUGH). He gets paid Friday, so I'll try to donate to Cindy Sheehan then too -- we've both been following her on the web and via CNN and man, as you say, she has OVARIES. Amazing woman.

I'm still fucking boggling over the "America Supports You" Freedom Walk and Country Music Concert to "celebrate" 9/11.

*seethes*

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....BadBugz could kick W's ass. (Altho that's not saying much!)

Do you think anybody's even told Dubya he's got a protestor waiting on his doorstep? Sure as shit, Bubble Boy isn't going to find out on his own.

Your guess is as good as mine. It wouldn't supprise me if he didn't actually know.

Can you remove me from your friends list. I'll do the same.

Fair enough.

"You do not defeat al-Qaeda until you stabilise the Middle East, and that's not possible as long as Saddam Hussein is in power." Okay, Saddam is no longer in power. We've been at war with this country since 2003, and Al-Qaeda doesn't seem to be suffering much, considering the recent London attacks and threatening video that was released.

Dork.

Also, if I hear the word 'freedom' used one more time in connection with the 'war on terrorism' I'm going to scream. It has nothing to do with freedom. I don't think they even understand what that word means.

I'm beginning to understand if they understand what the word "traitor" means, either. Some of these individuals really toss it around for all sorts of things, like disagreeing with the preznit.

Sorry. I'm just still boggling on the 9/11 walk-a-thon thingie. I just...I mean...hunh? Who thought THIS up?

If they had a sedate classical music memorial concert on the Mall, I could see that. But a rootin' tootin' good-time jamboree? Bwah?

And there they go again trying to connect 9/11 to Iraq. God damn. You know they're going to pull our need to invade Iran into this "celebration" somehow, don't you?

They're already trying to make the case.

The good news/bad news?

The good news is, I suspect with more than half the population seeing that the country marched into Iraq on the basis of a lie means that aside from saber-rattling, I don't think they'll actually succeed.

The bad news? Iran is a cause for concern, as evidenced by EU reps in negotiations with Iran. Since we squandered all our cred in Iraq, not to mention way too many American and Iraqi lives, we can't do shit about Iran or North Korea.

And besides, look iat it from Iran's pov: Big country with lots of weapons invaded country next door. Big country with lots of weapons before they invaded country next door put your country on shit list with North Korea and country they just invaded.

Fuck that shit. If I were Iran, I'd be stepping up my nuclear weapons program, too, if only so I'd have a deterrent.

Oh, they've been trying to make the case for a while now; Iran is playing right into the neocons' hands.

Now having said that, I agree that Iran is a sovereign nation with the right to pursue its own "energy" policy, if that's what it is. But it's also an avowed enemy of Israel, and it's doing its own version of saber-rattling these days. In full view of the UN, I might add. Not so smart, in my book.

On the other hand, they must know that we're over-extended and can't possibly support another military campaign. Except, given this administration, we'll probably go ahead and bomb the hell out of them anyway. A nuclear weapons program isn't a deterrent to this administration: it's a welcome mat.

I wonder what the fallout will be from this big party on 9/11? I wonder how NYC is going to deal with it?

FYI, I did move to Canada at the beginning of the year :)

[quote]I agree that Iran is a sovereign nation with the right to pursue its own "energy" policy[/quote]

I don't like the aber rattling, either. I think Bush would have to be completely retarded to invade yet another country.

To be fair though, Iran is pursuing "uranium conversion" wich means turning it into plutonium. Wich has approximately 0% safe "energy" use. You use plutonium to make bombs, not reactors.

While I suppose there is no reason a plutonium based nuclear "breeder" reactor could not be used to generate electricity, its roughly 10x more hazardous to run for MUCH less than 10x as much electricity.

It also has the major side effect of turning normal uranium into weapons-grade plutonium.

--Dracul, who thinks our current foreign policy is being set by people too stupid to work in the Bush SENIOR Administration.

Actually, I differed quite a lot with Bush Sr. on policy, but I think he was a master at International Relations. Whatever else you can say about the guy, he had a brain in his head and you did get the sense that an adult was in charge at the White House.

Like I said above, Iran is clearly not being entirely honest about anything. God knows there are enough countries in its backyard (read: Europe) who are taking the situation very, very seriously. Had we kept our hands off of Iraq, I suspect Iran wouldn't be quite so blatant about creating its own nuclear capabilities. Furthermore, the U.S. would've had some authority in backing the EU's attempts to get Iran to back down and back off. As it is, we pretty much squandered that authority in Iran.

The thing is, if Bush Sr. were in charge, we would've never fucked up in Tora Bora and we would've had more cooperation from the Islamic governments, or at least a tacit agreement to keep their mouths shut because a lot of them aren't any happier about al Queada. Furthermore, there'd be no way we'd be in Iraq, either. Bush Sr. back then understood why the U.S. couldn't get bogged down in Iraq and agreed (reportedly unhappily) with the containment scheme his administration set up and the Clinton administration continued.

Like I said, I had issues with Bush Sr.'s domestic policy, and was suspicious about our involvement in Operation Desert Storm, but the man also had a very clear grasp of reality and was smart enough to play the international odds in favor of U.S. interests. Ultimately, you can't expect more than that from a U.S. president.

As for GeeDubbya? I think we can pretty much agree that he doesn't have his father's brains nor did he even ask for his father's advice. I think we can pretty much say that Bush Sr. does not have any influence in the current White House. Things wouldn't be this bad if he did.

You know, I'm almost sad that I won't be in the country for this. I'd love to go protest it.

Do you suppose if you show up early with a "support our troops! send them home!" sign, you still get a lapel pin?

The goal [of the] . . . Freedom Walk [is] to provide an opportunity for as many citizens as possible to reflect on the importance of freedom. . . .

Gotta say, it's working. Lot'sa folk are reflecting on the importance of freedom, just not neccessarily the way they're wanting us to.

Gotta say, it's working. Lot'sa folk are reflecting on the importance of freedom, just not neccessarily the way they're wanting us to.

From your lips to God's ears.

Liz, please don’t do this. I love you – you know I do. We’ve met.

But I disagree violently with everything you’ve said here. And other equally intelligent people do as well.

It’s not fun for them to come onto their friends list and be called idiots for believing what they believe. They have that right. Just like you do, to believe what you believe.

I’m not going over it point by point. I understand there are a lot of people who agree with you. I know there are some who agree with me, as well. That doesn’t make either of us inherently right.

I understand your politics are an important part of your life, as my Christianity is mine, and

howardtayler’s Mormonism is of his. I talk about my religion on my LJ; Howard talks of his on his; and you certainly should talk about your politics on yours. But please don’t do it in such a way that those of us who feel differently feel like someone they liked and trusted just spat on them.

>But I disagree violently with everything you’ve said here. And other equally intelligent people do as well.

As someone who agrees with Liz's basic point of view, lwbush has a point. The name-calling doesn't convince and will put some people off of reading some of your other, valid points ("alcoholic" for example; he's almost certainly not currently one, and the fact that he might have been one in the past is not really relevant).

Of course - it's Liz's journal, she can rant (or do whatever) if she wants to.

Ranting is precisely what it is.

I still haven't calmed down, I'm so furious.

What's next?

The Pearl Harbor Ball and Cook-Out circa 1943?

People would have been furious then if it had happened.

People have every right to be outraged about this.

We're talking the deadliest day on American home soil in the 20th century, more deadly than Pearl Harbor the previous standard for this sort of thing, and we're having a walk-a-thon and country music concert to mark the anniversary!

That's unbelievable to me.

If they had done this on the Fourth of July, fine. I can see it. If they were even combining with with a USO-type deal and to urge Americans to buy war bonds or to support the war effort by making sacrifices, I wouldn't be happy, but I could see the point.

But this?

Excuse me. I have to go grind my teeth and break something.

Fair enough.

I don't mean to spit on your political beliefs. You have every right to hold on to them. In looking at my post, I don't recall calling anyone who voted for any of these people anything at all. So I honestly don't see where you believe I've spat on you or your political beliefs.

I do reserve the right to verbally beat on any and every elected official who lies, cheats, steals, and runs away from his or her constituents.

The 9-11 jamboree has frankly pushed me over the edge. I am furious beyond words about this. While I vaguely knew one person who was killed on 9-11 (a former corworker one of the planes that crashed into the Towers), I have dozens of friends up and down the east coast who lost co-workers, close friends, and in one case, a family member.

I've also had to listen to them rant for going on four years about 9-11 has been politicized beyond belief and for reasons that they cannot even comprehend, after they were specifically promised that this wouldn't happen. Worse, they're still not getting answers and they've had to fight for the answers they got. Even the Jersey Girls only scored a partial victory in at least getting hearings in Congress.

That, and the fact, there is overwhelming evidence we were lied to regarding Iraq.

There was never any WMD in Iraq (I admit I was at least willing to consider that possibility pre-invasion since Saddam was not a nice boy and did use biological and chemical agents in southern Iraq) and our government knew it.

There was never any connection between Iraq and 9-11 (which is what made me say, "Hey! Waitaminute!" pre-invasion when I started hearing those claims), yet there were administration officials that were claiming just that.

Both of those reasons where why we ostensibly invaded in the first place.

Basically, my tolerance for this administration has reached the breaking point.

While I understand what you are saying, right now I'm getting down on my knees every night and working for a Democratic sweep of Congress come 2006 followed by another Democratic sweep come 2008.

And the scary thing is: I never was a die-hard Democrat prior to 9/11. I voted on both sides of the party aisle. Needless to say, that has seriously changed.

I've never made a secret of my desire to replace the current administration.

I'm sorry if that hurts you, but that cheerful little Web site advertising a walk-a-thon and country music fest paid for and run by the Department of Defense has really...it has me seeing red with red tinge on top of it. I cannot believe what I'm seeing. And yet, there it is.

And I'm still trying to figure out how a Gold Star Mother from California who's had it up to her eyeballs has earned the name "traitor" in some corners. And I'm wondering how she can possibly be a threat to national security, the reason why she'll be arrested tomorrow, according to news reports.

The one two punch...it's really an infuriating state of affairs for me.

I may not agree with their form of doing so, but the DoD actually lost a lot of people on 9-11, and might be thinking of honoring them in doing this.

And I'd like to see th news reports about plans for arresting Mrs. Sheehan - it's not anywhere I've seen. I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely curious.

Two places reporting at the moment:

KHOU in Houston had reported it, but for some reason, the link no longer works. It went down between posting the link and double checking it. Sorry about that.

The Lone Star Iconclast, the local Crawford weekly, is blogging the event and makes a similar claim here. Scroll down to Monday, Aug. 8, 4:55 p.m.

Both stories quote Sheehan, so no, there hasn't been official word. There are reports of people converging on Crawford right now with videocameras just in case.

Frankly, I'm still far more furious about the 9-11 thing.

>While I understand what you are saying, right now I'm getting down on my knees every night and working for a Democratic sweep of Congress come 2006 followed by another Democratic sweep come 2008.

{forcibly pulls mind out of gutter} More power to you!

KPM

The DOD's Walk for Freedom? Now I feel spat upon.

There's not a word in any of your posts about this idiotic, crass, and cruel display of jinogism that you need to change to make anyone see your point.

(...But please don’t do it in such a way that those of us who feel differently feel like someone they liked and trusted just spat on them.

The idea of "The Freedom Walk" disgusts and reviles me -- The 9/11 Jamboree, indeed. The unrelenting gall of Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz & Co. continues to astound and enrage me, but frankly, I'm more shocked at how it seems riskier and riskier to voice that anger.

It's my view that, as clumsy, turgid and ohmygod dull as the dems can be, the GOP is crafty and wickedly smooth. Their PR machine is a behemoth. The sugary-sweet, pseudo-inclusive/intentionally divisive babble they spout is honed specifically to keep dissenting voices quieter and quieter. It plays in the heartland, and that's all that matters.

Editing our gut responses to lies, lies and more goddamned lies is not the answer. Never has been. Never will be.

Bush, dry or not, is still an alcoholic. He's also a former cokehead, a failed oilman, and a C-student, surrounded by a massive machine with a frightening agenda that has nothing to do with "freedom," "support," or even "walking."

And therein lies the rub: the redemption of G.W. Bush -- from loudmouthed, lazy frat boy with a yen to run a baseball league to a commanding, visionary world leader -- plays in Peoria. It fairly screams that any knucklehead with a rich daddy can sit in the catbird seat. In these cultually and politically mediocre times that's pretty compelling.

Whitewash the man, the deeds, the agenda, and the senseless death we're choking on -- I'm so proud! Mission accomplished.

I could say something typically condescending about Americans here (being Canadian), but I won't.

I can say though, that I'd take our Liberals/criminals, New Democrats/socialists, or Conservatives/fascists over a Republican or Democrat.

American politics creep me out.

Word. Don't blame you for feeling outraged, Liz. I just hope that the good and decent people of your country manage to regain control of it's destiny.

Gotta agree with you Liz.

9/11 is a day of mourning.

It is something that should not be politicized. It's a little late for that now, but to have a parade? A country music concert? Gah!

This is a day to remember friends and family. If you're religious... you go to church or whatever your place of worship is and pray.

This... this "thing" that the DOD is doing just absolutely disgusting.

I think what most aggravates me (and, I think, you) about this "Freedom Walk" is not the act of walking or the country music or even the plausible reasoning that we should celebrate the lives rather than mourn the deaths of 9/11 victims -- it's the fact that it is so blatantly a PR move. If I felt that this event was genuinely desired by anyone who was personally affected by a loss on 9/11 in order to honor that loss, I would be fine with it. I wouldn't go, but I wouldn't feel affronted by its existence. As it is...it feels crass, and it is simply propaganda for war and for more death rather than the aforementioned flimsy "celebration of life" excuse.

I have come to realize that the most infuriating thing about occurences like Cindy Sheehan's protest is the utter lack of understanding many Americans have of free speech. So many conservatives, while preaching the fight for freedom, lose touch with what exactly freedom entails. They seem to forget that free expression of one's opinions (even if they alter, or are abhorrent to the listener, or clash with society's general views on what is right) is the very first fucking thing we put in our constitution, and they criticize the hell out of people who exercise that right, calling them traitors; in fact, they are simply brave enough to claim their birthright. Then again, I know many liberals who come across the same problem when dealing with conservatives. Is it so wrong, so difficult to ask each other to justify our opinions and, in the president's case, life-and-death decisions? So far, the problem is that he doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of justifying, not that we're asking him to do so in the first place.

I hate that O'Reilly denigrated Sheehan's opinion by implying that she is a) acting crazy due to grief, and b) being manipulated by the eeeevil liberals. That cheapens her perfectly valid anger and sorrow, and ignores her admirable perserverance. Shame on you for being such a blind, self-centered little man, Bill O'Reilly. Shame on you. For that matter, shame on the people who listen to you, don't question you, and don't think for themselves. That's what makes me angry with America. I could deal with the stupidity of government for a while (that's what term limits are for), but the gullibility and lack of respect for true freedom that so many Americans display terrifies me far more than the Shrub's presidency, because the people do still have the power in this country. We're just too lazy and too ignorant to wield it most of the time, and that infuriates me. Even if we are fighting for "freedom," I don't think enough people know what that truly is. And that is a travesty.

Although I'm not American I pretty much agree with what you're saying Liz. I think if the MOD (The UK version of the DoD) organised a march and concert to "celebrate/commemorate" the London bombings there would be an outcry from the British people pretty much similar to the rant you posted here.

On the Cindy Sheehan point, I'm a bit in two minds on this. I grew up in an Army family and had a member of my family in the Army until I was 28. I learnt to accept at a very young age that they might be in a situation where they might die, that this was part of thir "job" and they accepted the risks, and no-one's to blame for their death. But I also think that we should never have gone to Iraq, not under the guise that they did and think that the troops should be pulled out in a manner that is not going to destabalise the area further, but will support the troops for as long as they're their.

Branding Cindy Sheehan a traitor is pretty much ridiculous to me, she's just a mother who wants answers as to why her son was sent to Iraq in the first place.

Sorry for rambling on so much, but felt I needed to say something.

First thing I read this morning:

Sheehan's questions for Bush are few: In addition to exactly what cause her son died for, she asks, "What is so noble about an illegal war of aggression?" And she wants to know whether the president is encouraging his daughters to enlist and take the place of someone pulling a second tour in the Middle East.

Worth the time to read. Here's the link:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/11/MNGVCE66GJ1.DTL
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9/11: It's like the Fourth of July in a way...

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Please understand I care about you

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Disgusted, depressed, demoralized

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Cindy Sheehan in today's San Francisco Chronicle