liz_marcs: (Real_Ladies)
liz_marcs ([personal profile] liz_marcs) wrote2007-08-22 11:24 pm

Borders-verse flashbacks: Gor

So here I am multi-tasking. Working on The Last Tin Soldier (beta notes have resulted in some changes all the way to the very end), checking out the Deep Space Nine episodes I can watch for free online at TV-Links, and checking my FList before toddling off to bed.

So, here I am, riding the kind of high that I can only get by basking in the awesome that is Kira Nerys, when I spy with my little eye from theantijoss_on_IJ that Gor of Losers is making a comeback.

Thanks to Dark Horse.

My irony meter just went off the scale.

Not to mention that I now have whiplash. From Kira to Gor. I need a frigging neck brace.

I tried to read a Gor book. Once. In junior high. (Although I'm very sure that if my dad knew, he would've had a heart attack. No. Make that a zillion heart-attacks.) I'm pretty sure that Gor pretty much planted my aversion-to-writing-smut seed. That shit was just ugly, yo. Me not a big fan of slave games, even consensual slave games. Although if it floats your boat, go and float, says I. Just don't make me wear the ball-gag and nipple clamps and we're cool. 

But even with my relatively innocent eyes, I could damn well spot a rape fantasy. Rape fantasies in and of themselves aren't bad, per se (even if it gets my squick running so hard that my knee starts jerking, if you get my drift). But this was a rape fantasy of a whole 'nother color. This was a rape fantasy for men. It's the really, really ugly shit where all women want it, all women deserve it, and all women will get it in the end. Failure to accept rape as a way of life is a brutal death sentence.

Why?

Because "no" ain't an option for women in Gor-world. Not when they're branded. Not someone chunks a slave collar on them. Not when they get assigned the role of "pleasure" slave, "reserve (virgin)" slave, or "scut work (not sexually attractive)" slave. Not when they get chained to a stone floor because they try to say no. Not ever.

Quick question kiddies: What's the difference between someone who's free, and someone who's a slave?

Answer: It's one word. "No." The power to say it. The power to think it. The power to act on it. One. Word.

Hunh. Guess the Gor books were edumacational after all. Who says the series is a total waste?

Well, actually, I do. Not even Dianetics comes close in the worthless books sweepstakes.

I remember my Bordersverse days rather fondly. I remember most of the customers rather fondly. I remember most of my co-workers rather fondly.

Know what I don't remember fondly? This one regular customer. He was a white male, always impeccably dressed in semi-expensive clothes. Glasses. Loafers. Sandy hair bordering on brown. About my age, more or less. Clean-cut. He looked like the type of guy who was involved in community service, or volunteering for some political organization or another.

Shit. I remember exactly how he looked, despite the distance of some years.

I also remember that he had this vibe. Long before I ever talked to him, I got the "something is just not right with that boy" radio signals so loud that my one tooth filling rattled every time he walked through the door. Straight ladies, gay men...I don't have to explain that whole serial-killer-in-disguise vibe to you, do I? I'm sure you've all had it once or twice. It's a feeling you don't forget. For the rest of you who don't know, the best way to explain it is as if someone's shadow just passed over your grave.

Anyway, I'd seen him around off and on for several months (and I always made it a habit to be elsewhere when he was looking for help). One day I didn't move fast enough and he got me.

Guess what our boy was looking for?

If you didn't say Gor books, then you haven't been paying attention.

Right. Needless to say, my brain went to DefCon 1 so fast that it's a wonder the word "tilt" show up on my eyeballs. Having no choice, however, I had to help Gor-man. A quick look into the database showed that we actually had a copy of the first book around (how, I don't know since they were out of print for a looooong time by that point). It wasn't in science fiction (Thank God!), but in erotica.

But that's not the real creepy part. The real creepy part is that Gor-man was talking about that damn book and how philosophical it was and how deep it was and shit like that. And he was asking my opinion about it.

Holy tomato, I thought to myself. Is this dude actually feeling me out about Gor?

Indeed he was. To be honest, I don't think he was hitting on me. I think he was on a little power trip. Obviously he saw my reaction when he asked for Gor, so I suspected that this guy — who towered over me by a good 6 inches — was trying to rattle my cage.

All he got for his trouble was my serene bookstore look: the one perfected over several years and honed in the fires of born-again customers trying to convert me to the Gospel according to Tim LaHaye, teenagers sneaking into the erotica section, and little kids running rampant in the children's section.

It's a look that's somewhat mask-like, coolly polite, vaguely condescending, and gives the cusomter abso-fraggin'-lutely nothing for their trouble.

Nothing pisses off a power-tripping customer more than that cool, polite wall of hell. They can't get over it, can't get around it, and can't dig under it. Hell, they can't even complain to the store manager about it. In short, they have nuffing! Once that mask is on, you will win power battle every. single. time. Plus, you get the joy of seeing a power-tripping customer go completely out of his or her tree.

Anyway, in the end, I advised Gor-man that if he wanted other books in the series, he'd have to trawl used bookstores, as almost the entire series was out of print. In fact, I expressed polite puzzlement that we had the first book in the series at all, while he expressed shock and horror that it was in the erotica section and not the science fiction section where, in his humble opinion, it belonged.

I saw Gor-man after that, of course (he was, after all, a regular). But he never asked me to help him out again. I did ring him up a few times though. His taste in reading material did nothing to dispel the kree-pee.

Anyway, if you want to be completely creeped out before bed, I highly recommend 7 year-old article from Salon about Gor enthusiasts recreating the series for real. The article is old enough that it's not tucked behind Salon's usual wall o' ads. It's totally free for the reading.

And per theantijoss_on_IJ, check out what Girl Wonder has to say about the Gor revival. Tamorah Pierce has a few choice words, too. Bellatrys_on_LJ has a whole collection of posts on Gor (scroll down to get to the really good, hard-core analysis of Gor). 

In the meantime, I'll be hoping like hell that Dark Horse loses oodles of money and earns a ton of bad publicity for trying to revive Gor.

Now I must cleanse my mind. Yeeeessss. I think I will watch the 'Crossover' episode of Deep Space Nine. Evil Kira in leather. It doesn't get any better than that.

X-posted to IJ, GJ, and JF

[identity profile] nebris.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 05:51 am (UTC)(link)
Once you've read "The Story of O", Gor is pretty tame actually. ;)

~M~

(Anonymous) 2007-08-23 06:10 am (UTC)(link)
I remember reading the first book when I was about 14 or 15. I liked it enough to steal some of the ideas for my D&D campaign (my players were NOT happy with the barbarians on the giant rocs). But seeing as I'd found it at a public library I didn't have much chance to follow the series so I only got to read one or two more in the series. A year or two later I happened across book 12 or something like that.

I couldn't believe the difference. If the way women were treated weren't bad enough it was boring as hell. I'm not sure there was an actual story in there anywhere but the pointless minutia put me to sleep more than once. If you haven't read the books just imagine how boring you'd have to be to put a hormone-driven teenage male to sleep while writing about naked women.

Why on earth would anyone anywhere think they could make money by bringing that crap back?

Dave
ext_108: Jules from Psych saying "You guys are thinking about cupcakes, aren't you?" (Default)

[identity profile] liviapenn.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 06:24 am (UTC)(link)

What's weird is that Dark Horse doesn't seem to be taking advantage of Gor's reputation; they seem to be ignoring it as hard as they can. (I do wonder what the actual cover of the Gor omnibus is going to look like when it comes out-- it can't possibly just be that orange gradient, can it?)

But right now, at least in the initial stages, Dark Horse seems to be promoting/describing the Gor comics as just straight fantasy action/adventure, like Hellboy or Conan or Buffy. Just about the only hint that it might be something more than that is one word in the promo text (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-558), where they say that Gor is a land of "passion" (and sorcery.) *eyeroll*

But imagine, seriously, if you'd never heard of Gor; it says right on Dark Horse's site that this is an adventure enjoyed by "...all age groups and demographics." Er. I swear, I'm sensing a repeat of the "Nymphet" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan) controversy, where one of the excuses given for dropping the manga (after much outcry) was "well, suddenly we realized some of the bits in later volumes were inappropriate." Like the publishers hadn't actually read the entire manga before deciding to purchase the rights to it! Shyeah.

Anyway. It just adds a whole new layer of *yuck*. If you're going to publish kinky slave-rape fetish material, then at least have the decency to admit that's actually what you're doing, and label it accordingly. Don't be all "what's everyone so upset about? It's just a classic pulp adaptation like everything else we do?" That's so cheap.

[identity profile] nocturnalista.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 08:05 am (UTC)(link)
In ninth grade, I took a Science Fiction Literature class. One of the required books was the first Gor book. Yikes.

As I recall, not only was it stupid, it was disgusting. At the time, I thought it was pretty cool to be able to read such "adult" fare for class, but in retrospect, I do wonder what the heck that teacher was thinking.

[identity profile] jgracio.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 08:11 am (UTC)(link)
This is the first time I've ever heard of Gor. This parody House Plants of Gor is the closest I've got to the books.

Sounds like a cheapo porn movie with delusions of being philosophy. Maybe if it attracts a bad enough word of mouth it'll make Dark Horse reconsider, dunno how many new female readers Buffy got them...

[identity profile] bookworm-2005.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 08:24 am (UTC)(link)
I first encountered the Gor books about 8 years ago, when I was around 18 and canvassing used bookstores and the Library for interesting reading material to while away the boring hours of my night shift. I read one of the later books in the series first, the one where the main protagonist is invading/escaping (never could figure out which) the stronghold of the Insectsiod 'Gods'. I actually enjoyed it, especially the Insectsiod Culture parts, although I did skip over the boring bits! It was mostly about the protagonist's Quest, and how his perceptions of what he thought was reality were changed. There wasn't much sex, and the main female was regulated to the role of spoiled victim, so he had very little interaction with her or any other humans. The whole slave thing was only mentioned in passing, so I just passed it off as cultural relativism and thought no more of it. I liked the book enough that I decided to check out another one from the Library, and that's when Gor was forever ruined for me. That book was all about the sex and slavery, and although I usually enjoy a good kink!fic, I wasn't even able to finish that one - I think it was the Nomads one that was mentioned earlier, but I'm not sure. Anyway, what really turned me off of the whole series wasn't the mediocre writing or the hardcore slavery aspect, it was the underlying thread of 'this is natural, the way things should really be' that ran through the whole thing. It wasn't just that the native Gorians thought that way, which was to be expected, but rather that you got the definite impression that the author himself thought that way and it showed in the stories. What really raised my hackles was the way the Earth Woman (women?) who had the misfortune to end up in Gor adapted/converted so quickly. And not in a 'there are people I love here, have to take the bad with the good' way, either. No, there's a passage in one of the books where she feels sorry for her Earth sisters because they are 'forced' to be Free and she truly believes that they would be happier as slaves, that that is their true and rightful position is society! The spinelessness of the whole situation just sickened me. I kept having visions of transporting a modern woman, perhaps a Marine, into the Gor 'Verse and watching her kick ass, take names, and telling all those would-be 'rescuers' (and enslavers, rescuing a woman on Gor automatically makes her your slave) just where they could stick it!
Huh. Fanfic impulses. Must Resist! Nah, I don't think I could stand becoming familiar enough with the Gor 'verse to write a good fic in it, not even a fix-it fic.
The book gave me the same level of creepiness that I got from a hardcore snuff & cannibalism fic that I once accidentally encountered. The 'if only Magic were real and I could obliviate myself of that' vibe. Yuck. I haven't touched a Gor book since. Major creepiness, yuck, yuck!

[identity profile] faithhopetricks.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 09:39 am (UTC)(link)
my serene bookstore look: the one perfected over several years and honed in the fires of born-again customers trying to convert me to the Gospel according to Tim LaHaye, teenagers sneaking into the erotica section, and little kids running rampant in the children's section.
It's a look that's somewhat mask-like, coolly polite, vaguely condescending, and gives the cusomter abso-fraggin'-lutely nothing for their trouble


//snorts Clearly, I need to develop that.

[identity profile] faithhopetricks.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 09:53 am (UTC)(link)
The plant sobbed muchly as Borin laid down the watering can. It was not pleased. Too, it was wet. But this did not matter. It was plant.
"You have been well watered," said Borin.
"Yes," said the plant, "I have been well watered." Of course, it could be watered by its master at will.
"I have watered you well," said Borin.
"Yes, master," said the plant. "You have watered your plant well. I am plant, and as such I should be watered by my master."


//dies

Oh satire, how I love thee.

[identity profile] simonf.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 10:07 am (UTC)(link)
I would love to know the reasoning behind a company that heavily promoted Joss Whedon and Equality Now all over the web (see this press release for details) but yet feels the need to sell Gor books.

[identity profile] sailorcelestial.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 10:30 am (UTC)(link)
Have you read the little summary on the Dark Horse website about the omnibus?


John Norman’s Gor Omnibus Vol. 1

Writer: John Norman
Genre: Action/Adventure, Fantasy

When Tarnsman of Gor was first published in 1966, author John Norman introduced the world to Tarl Cabot, a man ripped from his homeland and cast across space to the savage world of Gor, where thousands of kidnapped prisoners toiled as slaves for the all-powerful Priest-Kings.

Part science fiction, part adventure novel, the stories in the world of Gor would unfold to show Tarl Cabot's growth from a novice to a man whose fate might determine the course of every man, woman, and child on Gor.

John Norman's Gor Omnibus 1 collects the first three novels in the series. Prepare to take a journey to a land of passion and sorcery.


I'd say they forgot to mention something....
tabaqui: (Default)

[personal profile] tabaqui 2007-08-23 11:02 am (UTC)(link)
Heh. I've never actually read it, although i've seen it... I've wanted to read some of the Marquis de Sade's books, but could only find then in French! I really can't read French.

[identity profile] jakeexperience.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 11:19 am (UTC)(link)
IAWTC. Despite its many flaws, the series is a fantasy and is not bad because the behavior can and does happen in real life.

[identity profile] jakeexperience.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 11:22 am (UTC)(link)
In regards to Nymphet/Kodomo No Jikan, I'm rather glad it will exist in fansub form but will likely never be released to stores in the U.S. Can you imagine whatthe "moral outrage" of Faux News or the next Jerry Falwell would be like if they happened to chance upon it?

[identity profile] jgracio.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 11:46 am (UTC)(link)

$
£

[identity profile] jakeexperience.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 11:53 am (UTC)(link)
Speaking of KnJ, the OP for the anime adaptation is up on youtube (Probably not safe for work because of suggestive content.)

You can see the scanlations for the manga here. I had planned to mirror them on my gj and ij behind a semi-private friends cut ...

[identity profile] wesleysgirl.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 12:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I've never read the books, but always had the impression that they were poorly-written cheesy schlock. I remember there being quite a few of them in the SciFi club library at college, and I assume someone must have read them, but I don't remember ever having seen anyone READING them. But someone must have.

[identity profile] curiouswombat.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 12:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I read a chunk of 'O' and was bored out of my brain by it - wouldn't bother picking the book up if it was in a skip....
tabaqui: (sombookby__papillon)

[personal profile] tabaqui 2007-08-23 01:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Heeeeee!

It's one of those things i must try, you know? Like reading 'On the Road' or something - a 'classic' that you must at least look over or feel - in my case at least - like a dork.
ext_1880: (Default)

[identity profile] lillian13.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 01:16 pm (UTC)(link)
He's a professor of philosphy in New York. Real name: John Frederick Lange, Jr.. Go figure.

And I've worked for a publisher who would have reprinted them for the cool factor--except that as he said, "Damnit, I can't get past the crappy writing!"

[identity profile] melfinatheblue.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Um, can we export Zoe there with Jayne's arsenal?
After reading the comments I have a deep burning desire to do this. Oh, and Buffy too.
I'm going to be happy I've not read these now.

[identity profile] fangirlsays.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 03:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I would pay good money* if someone would write this.

*If I had good money, that is.

[identity profile] texanfan.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 03:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I've been away of the Gor novels but I never really knew what they were about. I always figured they were more sword and sorcery shtick and since that isn't my shtick I didn't pay attention.

I worked in a comic book store for several years and there was a regular there how set off the meter. He two was a business suited, clean cut, white male. But he never tried to engage me in that kind of conversation. Yeesh! What is the purpose of trying to rattle someone's cage like that? I wish I could manage the blank wall of death. :)
ext_108: Jules from Psych saying "You guys are thinking about cupcakes, aren't you?" (Default)

[identity profile] liviapenn.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)

Why are you glad it will exist in fansub form? I don't understand the appeal of the series, I guess. Is it a really great story that's *so good* you can ignore the icky bits that sexualize an eight-year-old's crush on her teacher, or is that the whole point, that it's about "a mischievous young girl who tries to sexually entrap her teacher?" (quote via Jason DeAngelis)

I have the same problem with Nymphet, I guess, as I do with Gor; Gor is about how all women really-truly want to be raped (even if they don't even know it, or claim otherwise, etc.) and it's simply a man's duty to get on with it; Nymphet seems to be about how a little girl really-truly is being a purposeful cocktease-- saying things, doing things, rubbing up against her teacher, because she really, really wants it, and therefore nothing *he* does in response is his fault.

I'm sure there are men who read the Gor books and think to themselves "Yes, that's right! He's telling it how it is! All women really want to be raped!" And I'm sure there are also men who would read Nymphet and think "It's true! Those little cockteases really *are* doing it on purpose! They really do want me to fuck them!"

But apart from letting these ideas *support* what some pathetic bastard already believes-- I'm sure there are inexperienced teenagers also reading the manga and letting it *form* their beliefs. I don't see why you'd have to be a politician or a bible-thumper to be grossed out by that.

[identity profile] jakeexperience.livejournal.com 2007-08-23 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Liz: sorry for the deleted comment, I made a large typo and LJ won't let us edit comments we've already posted.

I'd like to point out that the original author of the manga is a woman who understands that this sort of silly comedy is meant to be amusing fiction. She sees the crush the kid has on the teacher as a rather innocent event, in great contrast to people who want to overread the text here in the west.

As Jason DeAngelis said quite well,
Most people have not yet read Nymphet, since we haven't even published it yet, so I would like to clarify an important point: Nymphet is a story about a mischievous young girl who tries to sexually entrap her teacher. The important context here is that the girl's advances on her teacher are never reciprocated by him; her teacher is horrified by her actions, and his romantic interest is in fact another adult teacher. The comedy arises out of this young girl saying and doing improper things (much like Crayon Shin-chan, which is currently being aired on Cartoon Network) and seeing her teacher squirm with discomfort and shock while he struggles to keep his composure, at the same time trying not to make a fool of himself in front of the woman he loves.

Gor and KnoJ/Nymphet are only similar in that both are fiction; they have nothing else in common.

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