It's a fascinating debate. I have one (former) Evangelical friend and we used to debate it back and forth.
I agree, there is nothing greater than doing good works simply because it is the right thing to do. I'm a little more flexible on the faith issue. You can have faith that things will get better if everyone pitches in. You can have faith in your fellow man. You can have faith because Jesus told his followers once upon a time: "What you have done for the least of my brothers, that you've done on to me."
Doing good works just to make yourself look good is a hollow thing. But I have to wonder: does it matter to the people you're helping?
This faith for the sake faith, but walking by the people in the ditch has strong historical overtones for me. Some of the worst social aspects in colonial New England was as a result of a theocracy running the show that believed in predestination and that the downtrodden were downtrodden because they somehow deserved to be.
Never mind that women without husbands had no alternative but to turn to illicit ways of making money or to live in poverty in colonial society. Never mind that ill health, catastrophic financial disaster, or even the suspicions of your neighbors was enough to make you pariah. That didn't figure into the picture. The prevaling belief was that if you were among "the select," you would want for nothing. The people who were down and out stayed down and out because very few people were willing to do anything for people who obviously weren't among "the select."
This is why we need to make history a more important subject in our schools, IMHO. It's a lesson that there's zero new under the sun.
The former Evangelical friend finally came around to my way of thinking on the issue. After years of putting up with people in the circles she traveled doing nothing more than "pray" and bitch about the world, she walked into a mainstream Lutheran church that was big on doing charity and serving the community.
She's involved with so many things to help with the services now that she doesn't have a whole lot of free time. And she's never been happier with her faith, especially now that she doesn't have to pretend to believe in the Rapture any more.
I grew up with zero tradition for something like the Rapture. The first time I heard about it was when I was somewhere in my early 20s, and I thought the guy telling me was making a joke. It took a me a few years to catch on that people actually believed in it. (The history of belief in the Rapture is a fascinating one to read. It strikes me as about as biblical as most space opera science fiction stories, especially given its dicey origins.)
Of course, I knew it was a matter of time before my friend would walk. She has a PhD in microbiology and she was starting to get into fights over evoluton vs. intelligent design. She was and still is an evolutionist who really can't see how faith in God and evolution cancel each other out.
no subject
I agree, there is nothing greater than doing good works simply because it is the right thing to do. I'm a little more flexible on the faith issue. You can have faith that things will get better if everyone pitches in. You can have faith in your fellow man. You can have faith because Jesus told his followers once upon a time: "What you have done for the least of my brothers, that you've done on to me."
Doing good works just to make yourself look good is a hollow thing. But I have to wonder: does it matter to the people you're helping?
This faith for the sake faith, but walking by the people in the ditch has strong historical overtones for me. Some of the worst social aspects in colonial New England was as a result of a theocracy running the show that believed in predestination and that the downtrodden were downtrodden because they somehow deserved to be.
Never mind that women without husbands had no alternative but to turn to illicit ways of making money or to live in poverty in colonial society. Never mind that ill health, catastrophic financial disaster, or even the suspicions of your neighbors was enough to make you pariah. That didn't figure into the picture. The prevaling belief was that if you were among "the select," you would want for nothing. The people who were down and out stayed down and out because very few people were willing to do anything for people who obviously weren't among "the select."
This is why we need to make history a more important subject in our schools, IMHO. It's a lesson that there's zero new under the sun.
The former Evangelical friend finally came around to my way of thinking on the issue. After years of putting up with people in the circles she traveled doing nothing more than "pray" and bitch about the world, she walked into a mainstream Lutheran church that was big on doing charity and serving the community.
She's involved with so many things to help with the services now that she doesn't have a whole lot of free time. And she's never been happier with her faith, especially now that she doesn't have to pretend to believe in the Rapture any more.
I grew up with zero tradition for something like the Rapture. The first time I heard about it was when I was somewhere in my early 20s, and I thought the guy telling me was making a joke. It took a me a few years to catch on that people actually believed in it. (The history of belief in the Rapture is a fascinating one to read. It strikes me as about as biblical as most space opera science fiction stories, especially given its dicey origins.)
Of course, I knew it was a matter of time before my friend would walk. She has a PhD in microbiology and she was starting to get into fights over evoluton vs. intelligent design. She was and still is an evolutionist who really can't see how faith in God and evolution cancel each other out.